I don't understand it, I just do not understand it!

[Angelhearth]

None, I don't even know what to do with my 150mil.
That's why I sell on a low price, because I don't need money and I could make someone else happy who bought the item for a cheap price.

But normally I undercut by a few hundred gil and not thousands.
But I don't really care, what do I need money for anyway?

So what you're basically saying is that as long as you have more than enough gil, no one else deserves to get any, isn't that correct?

[Angelhearth]

The reason people undercut tend to be either

1. because they want more inventory space
2. because they gathered the mats and can therefore make more profit even at lower prices because they don't have to worry about making back the cost on mats (an example: If Purpure Beads are going at 50k, and Asthethe's Cross-Pein Hammers are going for 300k, the the one that gathered their own shell clips can sell their hammers for 250k, and not only sell the item fast, but still make 50k more than the people that had to buy the beads.Going further, if they sell the Beads instead and the Shell Clips and Resin are going for 25k per 4 and 2 of each, then they would've made 100% more money than those that had to buy the mats)
3. or because they find the items too overpriced and want to crash it.

None of these are mutually exclusive. A gatherer would obviously benefit from more inventory space and it is still possible to make a profit while bringing the market down. Especially if people buy your wares with the intent to sell them at the inflated markup you were trying to rout.

Did you read Curisu's answer, just before yours? That's the reason I was expecting to hear, sooner or later. We don't care, we have too much gil, we don't know what to do with it, so we destroy the market for the rest of you.

I can understand the reasons you come up with, but they don't seem to correlate to what I see (in a very few cases). To sell in large quanta, undercutting dramatically, and continue doing so, isn't for any normal reasons, it's to make trouble for those who genuinely try earning on the market. I dump sometimes, but I do it so much lower than the going rate (normally 50%) that it should be obvious I just wan't to get rid of it. Although, some still try to compete with those prices, for reasons I just can't figure out. Leave it be, players will buy it in no time if you don't underbid, they'll even come from other servers.

[Angelhearth]

Speaking for myself, I completely understand. I just don't care that much. Most of the time if I'm selling an item it's because I'm clearing out inventory space. I list it low to sell and get rid of it. There's no devious ulterior motive to undercut and ruin the market. I just want it gone but selling items is better than trashing them. That said, I don't generally undercut by large amounts, just enough that it will clear out quickly.

Not everyone cares about being a merchant.

But that is not what I'm talking about, is it? If you sell an item in a flooded market for 1% under the lowest seller, you don't try to get rid of anything. If you continue to go down 10-100 gil every time a seller goes down, you're not trying to get rid of anything, you're trying to make the other sellers go away, so you can take over the market, or just plain like to harass other sellers.

[Angelhearth]

First rule to remember in dealing with the market is that is it never your market. The market board does not exist to reward you fairly for your effort, nor are you entitled to earn gil from it. Markets do not work that way, they're player driven, open to everyone and subject to supply and demand. If that doesn't sound fair, it isn't, nor is it meant to be.

Once you understand and accept that, you can make reasonable gil on the mb by dabbling in multiple markets, researching on items that are in high demand and being patient even when prices spike and dip.

Also keep in mind crafting is at its all time easiest. Hundreds of thousands of players have max level crafters and competition to sell items is sky high, while demand is naturally lower because more people can make or gather their own items.

You aren't really following the discussion, are you? You just had to but in.

[Maeka]

But that is not what I'm talking about, is it? If you sell an item in a flooded market for 1% under the lowest seller, you don't try to get rid of anything. If you continue to go down 10-100 gil every time a seller goes down, you're not trying to get rid of anything, you're trying to make the other sellers go away, so you can take over the market, or just plain like to harass other sellers.

There are plenty of times that I'd get things like Sublime Solutions out of desynthing things, or the fact I've got a bunch of entry-level crafting food on me, and enough fish to make 200 more... sometimes I just have crap I want to get rid of it and turn it into gil. You don't do that by listing 1% under the other sellers. No, I slash 30% off of it because I WANT IT TO SELL and I don't want it still sitting on my retainer the next day when I log on.

I don't care about taking over markets or anything. I'm a casual player who doesn't care about attempting to be a monopoly or anything like that, that just takes too much time and effort.

I have a bunch of crap, and I want to exchange that for gil. Same as anybody else.

If you want yours to sell, and sell now, you price it lower than everybody else, and hope that nobody is willing to go lower than you. If you lower your price by 1%, the chances are very likely someone will lower it by 2%. However, if I sell it for 25% - 30% less, then there's far less chance someone is willing to go lower than that, or, some baron wannabe like you will buy to resell. Either way, I get the gil, and the items are gone.

Also, it depends on how much confidence I have in an item. For example, Slithersand when it first came out. Yeah, I'll list for 500-1k cheaper. Though these days I'll go a bit lower than that, because the markets on those evened out once the initial craze passed. I still get decent prices for it, though, even if I slash 5k off the price. I'll log on next day and it's gone.

In the end, all I care about is keeping my inventory clean, and getting a modest amount of gil for it. I don't want to vendor it for 10 gil, but yet I don't mind getting like 500 or a zonure leather, or some-such. And if I see a million zonure leathers up for like 2k each... I don't mind listing mine for 1500, or 1200 or what-not. Better than holding onto it, or getting 10 from the vendor.

[Burmecia]

Im lazyyyy, so I make my teporting money with growing althyk lavender and trading those for nuggets.
If I got pissed every time someone undercuts the prices to oblivion, I would be dead by having been too damn pissed all The Time, desu.

[Maeka]

Im lazyyyy, so I make my teporting money with growing althyk lavender and trading those for nuggets.
If I got pissed every time someone undercuts the prices to oblivion, I would be dead by having been too damn pissed all The Time, desu.

There are far easier ways to make "teleporting money". I mean, simply getting 2 retainers to lv80 and doing 18h ventures each day gives you 8,000 per day (you can turn the coins into the Doman Enclave for a free 20k per week) and also Challenge Logs. And Qing up for a couple Adventurer in Needs per day.

That, and let's not forget that the best way to earn a gil is to save a gil -- I am a super-casual player and I have 62 million. A lot of that was made by not spending it on stupid stuff like the latest crafted gear.

[Kuro_Mao]

I deysnth. It took me along while. cost of teleport to doma and hand it certain battlecrafts, and its really a free near 40k just from running daily df roulettes.

[Jojoya]

But I do compete, I make millions on the market. A day I don't make more than 1 million gil is a day wasted in my opinion. I'm not sure why you guys even bother crafting, if it isn't to make as much gil as possible.

I craft because I enjoy crafting. It's fun to make things for myself, and to make things for others who can use the items but aren't interested in crafting themselves or haven't leveled crafting sufficiently. The small profits still add up over time. My expenses get covered and I have some gil leftover for other things I might want that I can't (or are too lazy to) provide for myself.

Again, you need to understand that what motivates you is not what motivates others nor does it need to be. Not everyone cares about wealth accumulation in a game where excess wealth has no value because there's nothing for the player to buy with it.

Whether you like it or not, you will be competing in the markets against a variety of sellers with motivations different from your own. That means you need to be ready to adapt to how the market changes as sellers come and go. If you feel like new sellers entering the market are cutting the profit margin down below what you feel is acceptable to you, then you need to find new things to sell.

[Curisu]

So what you're basically saying is that as long as you have more than enough gil, no one else deserves to get any, isn't that correct?

Everyone deserves money I just don't care enough to be up to date with the market.
I see the current lowest price, cut my price by 100-1000 gil and start selling it.

Also, I don't really know how I made all my money, I just sell the retainer stuff and desync everything.