DRK skill: Living Dead

[Bsrking5]

This has been discussed for years in the tank forums, a million different suggestions have been made to make the skill better and SE hasn't listened to any of it, i doubt theyre going to start listening to it as soon as you post it on the general discussion forums.

I don't see SE changing it but they might eventually. The best hope of a rework might be new expansion release. This and the holy post doesn't belong in the general forums thou. I doubt SE isnt listening, they just have their own idea for how each jobs should preform.

[Gemina]

This has been discussed for years in the tank forums, a million different suggestions have been made to make the skill better and SE hasn't listened to any of it, i doubt theyre going to start listening to it as soon as you post it on the general discussion forums.

Indeed it has. And as usual I will say that the skill is fine for one simple reason: It prevents you from hitting zero.

Sure, there are a ton of ways the ability can be improved. But the true problem with Living Dead is that it is a scapegoat. I've seen all the tanks, including PLD, get KO'd in the exact same situations that a DRK uses LD.

Healers need to be held accountable for KOs they could have prevented. Simple as that.

[Praesul]

Living Dead is a giant black hole for resources and if it stays that way no amount of buffs will make it good. They could lower the CD and it would probably still be bad, as long as the CD isn't low enough to cheese EVERY single TB, allowing you to take an extra DPS.

[Gemina]

remove invulns

Actually, I always felt that the ability to go invulnerable was a signature skill for PLD, and I wish it was exclusive to them. They still have the true invuln skill in the game, and the "preventing from hitting zero" abilities are all just watered down versions of it.

LD/WD actually works so well for DRK at least from a lore perspective. It makes sense that they don't necessarily go invulnerable, but rather can still come at you even after death, and you cannot kill what is already dead. It would be so flippin cool if WD's animation was still the DRK dropping, but Living Shadow comes out, and you have full control over it for a full 10 seconds, all the while the mob(s) relentlessly keep up their attack, hitting for 0 damage against the shadow.

WD status should honestly be lifted by casting Raise.

[Seraphor]

Living Dead is a giant black hole for resources and if it stays that way no amount of buffs will make it good. They could lower the CD and it would probably still be bad, as long as the CD isn't low enough to cheese EVERY single TB, allowing you to take an extra DPS.

DRK can already cheese most normal TBs with TBN.
Maybe that's why LD has been left as it is, it's unnecessary to even use it 95% of the time.

It sucks as an emergency invuln, but for planned use in high end content, although it takes more coordination with the healers, it can actually be better than the others.

For example with the tethers in Titania EX, DRK as the OT can take five of them, between TBN and LD.

[Seraphor]

Actually, I always felt that the ability to go invulnerable was a signature skill for PLD, and I wish it was exclusive to them. They still have the true invuln skill in the game, and the "preventing from hitting zero" abilities are all just watered down versions of it.

LD/WD actually works so well for DRK at least from a lore perspective. It makes sense that they don't necessarily go invulnerable, but rather can still come at you even after death, and you cannot kill what is already dead. It would be so flippin cool if WD's animation was still the DRK dropping, but Living Shadow comes out, and you have full control over it for a full 10 seconds, all the while the mob(s) relentlessly keep up their attack, hitting for 0 damage against the shadow.

WD status should honestly be lifted by casting Raise.

I don't think Raise would be any easier than frantically spamming heals tbh.

But yeah, total invulnerability isn't strictly necessary most of the time.
Even something like 90% damage reduction, or increasing your HP by 80% for 6s, would probably work as an alternative.

[Shurrikhan]

Personally, I'd rather each of the Invuln skills were revised to... less of an invuln and more of a unique mitigation+utility skill.

Consider, when Holmgang ("Going to the Holm (a small island on which duels could be held)" or effectively just "Duel") first came out, it literally just tied the Warrior and its target in place, allowing certain kiting strats (when others had threat on its target) and ignoring knockbacks. The Warrior mog in the Good King Mog fight more or less copies this with a mass draw-in and snare skill. It'd make sense, perhaps, for it to prevent dying from any other targets while causing damage taken from any other sources to build Beast Gauge or the like, but a general death prevention seems a bit out of left field, as fun as it may feel at times.

Living Dead would be mostly fine if it just had a shorter cooldown (or if the others were nerfed to compensate), if it had a further effect during the actual Living Dead (not Walking Dead) component, and if DRK had decent life-steal, at least contextually. Make the skill as a whole more granular, effectively just allowing it to drop you into negative HP without dying instead of an all or nothing healing cost penalty, and give DRK a Blood for Blood trait, increasing its life-steal based on %missing HP (including the amount stored in Living Dead as negative HP) atop some lifesteal revisions across the whole kit. If capped to as much fatal damage absorbed as your maximum HP, it'd effectively allow no more and no less than twice your maximum eHP, but without any of the added healing efficiency; instead it'd tie into synergies with DRK's own kit to make up the difference.

Superbolide is... strange. The "hit just before death to minimize cost" gimmick is fun but, there's little else good, let alone unique, to be said about it. Not sure how I'd change this one yet.

Hallowed Ground is iconic, and therefore can't rightly be removed, but neither does it have to be free. It could, for instance, as easily force a 1-bar Tank LB on use. I'd be fine with Paladin being the only job to retain an actual Invuln. It just needs to have some balancing cost therein that makes it a tactical choice for one's party, rather than a free bonus.

[Stepjam]

First, this belongs in the tanking thread. Second, holmgang only makes it so your HP can't go below 1.
Third, I think it should be changed so instead of instana dead it should converts all remaining MP to HP on a percentage ratio of 2:1. 100% MP gives back 50% HP back and so on.

While creatively, it isn't a bad idea, that would put DRK at a disadvantage in terms of damage. Many fights (particularly in Savage) have strats that involve actively using invulns, and with your idea, that would really hamper DRK's damage output as they'd have to "waste" MP on a non-DPS action. Even TBN is dps neutral when used properly since it essentially refunds the used MP.

If every single invuln had a damage reducing side effect, this might not be so bad, but since they don't, this change would hurt DRK more than their current invuln does. It's wonky, but at least with healers who are on top of things/a Whm with Bene, there's not too much to worry about.

[Gemina]

I don't think Raise would be any easier than frantically spamming heals tbh.

But yeah, total invulnerability isn't strictly necessary most of the time.
Even something like 90% damage reduction, or increasing your HP by 80% for 6s, would probably work as an alternative.

Why not? They are already having to do that on top of the spam heals that didn't save the DRK. I just took out the brunt of the work. Any DRK main will tell you that the rate that which they actually survive WD is going to be around 50/50, or 'hit ot miss'. Casting raise is problematic only in the sense that the healer has to sacrifice their mobility. Otherwise you hit one button, and call it a day. There is the option to swiftcast it, which the healer is going to have to do anyway if their spam heals aren't enough to lift WD. I will admit, it is an ARR-isque solution, but one I would take as someone who plays the healers and DRK.

90% damage reduction is basically just a weaker Hallowed. I am highly in favor of tank invuln skills using the essence of that job's identity. I think PLD and DRK do well in this regard. I do like the idea of increased HP for WAR. Like seriously all it does it makes them a beast: basically just a big heal to get them out of crit + increased def that makes them nigh-invuln + increased damage. They can only use it when it crit HP though. GNB I am not so sure since I haven't touched it yet. Currently I find them basically casting Heartless Angel on themselves to be kind of wonky, but it works.

[WhyAmIHere]

Pardon me for not knowing the specific CD timer of a specific ability off of the top of my head in a role I don't play as often as others.

However, I am aware that for self-healing DRK doesn't have much but that doesn't change much of anything since I've seen AD heal a pretty crazy amount of HP on large mob packs.

But hey, I'm trying to be civil. Not fling subtle insults. Please do come back when you're done with them. :3

maybe if you can be less disingenuous? You claimed DRK had a good healing ability in Abyssal Drain. You compared it to chaotic cyclone. Chaotic Cyclone by itself doesn't even heal, it only does when used with nascent flash. You did not clarify you meant single target nor AoE, so that miscommunication is also your fault.

You demonstrated a clear lack of understanding on a matter, and I called out your lack of understanding on it, and instead of just saying "My bad, I don't really tank much" and move along, you wanna act like a victim, "how dare I be insulted?!" You made a mistake, I called you wrong. Being told you're wrong isn't an insult, get over it.