DRK skill: Living Dead

[Gemina]

This has been discussed for years in the tank forums, a million different suggestions have been made to make the skill better and SE hasn't listened to any of it, i doubt theyre going to start listening to it as soon as you post it on the general discussion forums.

Indeed it has. And as usual I will say that the skill is fine for one simple reason: It prevents you from hitting zero.

Sure, there are a ton of ways the ability can be improved. But the true problem with Living Dead is that it is a scapegoat. I've seen all the tanks, including PLD, get KO'd in the exact same situations that a DRK uses LD.

Healers need to be held accountable for KOs they could have prevented. Simple as that.

[EaMett]

Indeed it has. And as usual I will say that the skill is fine for one simple reason: It prevents you from hitting zero.

Sure, there are a ton of ways the ability can be improved. But the true problem with Living Dead is that it is a scapegoat. I've seen all the tanks, including PLD, get KO'd in the exact same situations that a DRK uses LD.

Healers need to be held accountable for KOs they could have prevented. Simple as that.

I disagree in SCH.
In solo play (dungeon/raid/etc) I'm rarely standing on enough ressources to prevent LD from killing the tank. Everything is done to prevent LD from ever being required. Unlike HLMG or HG that can actually be worked with to reduce the amount of healing required. LD is a loss 100% of the time.
In group play without a WHM often times it's better to ignore LD as well and have tanks do the mechanics as it's less healing and less dps loss. LD can still shine but it's only in limited situations. Generally those would be multi-hit tankbusters that would require repeated healing throughout, like golden bahamut or uwu ifrit, etc. In those cases, saving ressources to deal with LD is easier and less intrusive than healing through the mechanic.

In any event, it's not a scapegoat, something could/should definitely be done.

[Gemina]

I disagree in SCH.
In solo play (dungeon/raid/etc) I'm rarely standing on enough ressources to prevent LD from killing the tank. Everything is done to prevent LD from ever being required. Unlike HLMG or HG that can actually be worked with to reduce the amount of healing required. LD is a loss 100% of the time.
In group play without a WHM often times it's better to ignore LD as well and have tanks do the mechanics as it's less healing and less dps loss. LD can still shine but it's only in limited situations. Generally those would be multi-hit tankbusters that would require repeated healing throughout, like golden bahamut or uwu ifrit, etc. In those cases, saving ressources to deal with LD is easier and less intrusive than healing through the mechanic.

In any event, it's not a scapegoat, something could/should definitely be done.

I main SCH as well, and it's not that they can't heal through LD, it's that it takes up a lot of their resources to do so. I have yet to lose a DRK to LD on any healer I play, including SCH. You also should never have to be alone in healing the DRK back up. What the hell is your co healer doing? It is ridiculous to me that players who play healers have problems when the requirement amps up for them to do so.

I stand by it being a scapegoat, because any situation that a DRK has to use LD already warrants the additional healing. It is your job to get players out of critical HP so they can survive unavoidable mechanics, which includes auto attacks at the tank.

You're right, something does have to be done. I play DRK as well, and while I have yet to lose a DRK to WD while I am healing, I have certainly been victim to WD expiring before the debuff can be lifted. Each time this has happened, it wasn't that the healer(s) couldn't heal me; it was because they didn't. I want absolutely nothing done to rework LD/WD because it's healers that need to be held accountable, as I grow quite tired of their tunnel visioning, and neglect of their primary duty. And we want healing to be more engaging when most can't even handle a simple LD/WD mechanic? They are not making a strong case for themselves for the devs to add more DPS buttons, or make healer gameplay more interesting.

If there is any change I advocate, it would be tell tale sign that the DRK has just cast doom on himself. The animation, sound effect, debuff icon, and call macros are all apparently insufficient. At this point though, I don't think anything is going to work.

[KDSilver]

Indeed it has. And as usual I will say that the skill is fine for one simple reason: It prevents you from hitting zero.

Sure, there are a ton of ways the ability can be improved. But the true problem with Living Dead is that it is a scapegoat. I've seen all the tanks, including PLD, get KO'd in the exact same situations that a DRK uses LD.

Healers need to be held accountable for KOs they could have prevented. Simple as that.

Yes and no.
Using tank invuln are part of some strategy for example in savage.
Which make DRK behind in that part if you don't have a whm. Sure, he'll get the heal, but you have to use so many ressources just for that in comparison.
Plus, any "random" living dead" in other scenario to prevent death means that, if you, as healer, is not ready because you already used your ressource for something else, you'll left spamming your your biggest GCD heal asap, not even knowing if it'll work (hello 20hp remaining).
It's honestly meh. I'm for a rework of it as well.
Too many drawback for what it does.

Paladin is invuln, so np.
Gnb is also invuln, so no stress as long as he'll endure the next hit with enough hp once bolide ends
War same, just some more hp
But a full HP bar.

I wouldn't mind if each tank would require the same amount of dedication for their invuln.
But that's not the case

[Gemina]

Yes and no.
Using tank invuln are part of some strategy for example in savage.
Which make DRK behind in that part if you don't have a whm. Sure, he'll get the heal, but you have to use so many ressources just for that in comparison.

You mean cheese mechanics? Path of least resistance though, right? Can you name any savage mechanics that cannot be done without using tank invuln skills? And by that, I mean it is not possible, which means the group has to strategize around it, not with it. I don't prog savage, so I am genuinely curious.

And yes, you have to use your healing resources to heal. What else are they used for? Again, I will dismiss any argument that has healers griping about having to heal. I am more in favor of removing the invuln skills from the game completely.

[Lyth]

There are many problems with Living Dead.

The ability description and tool tips are incorrect. It's also one of the longest descriptions for an ability in the game. Imagine a new healer trying to figure out how it works mid-combat. Fun.
There are a lot of misconceptions about the healing requirements and duration.
There's a lack of UI information to support the use of this action. Healers have no feedback on how much actual healing is still required (you don't need to be at max health to clear the effect).
It's the only invuln that can be ended early by another player. An early Benediction can be just as dangerous as a late one.
The healing requirements are getting progressively worse, especially with the removal of Convalescence.
It doesn't sync up well with Benediction, which is required if you want to get the maximum duration out of it. If you reserve Benediction for Living Dead, you miss chances to use Benediction.
It's objectively worse than Holmgang. Put the drawback on the shorter recast invuln, and on a job that actually has abilities to self-heal through it.

All in all, it's a terribly designed ability which is convoluted for the sake of being convoluted. It needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Failing that, just scrap invulns altogether and call it even.

[Reinha]

It's the only invuln that can be ended early by another player. An early Benediction can be just as dangerous as a late one.

This would be ok if dark knights could in return patch up other people by raising them.

[RyuDragnier]

All in all, it's a terribly designed ability which is convoluted for the sake of being convoluted. It needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Perhaps instead making it work with our MP instead? Our MP full heals upon use, and all damage from that point on for the next 10s is heavily mitigated and taken from our MP pool while our HP remains untouched. If our MP hits 0, Living Dead immediately ends and our MP is restored by 1K times the amount of seconds Living Dead stayed up. Taking a blow that would empty our MP pool completely during LD's duration would not bleed into our HP, so using it right before a heavy tankbuster, even if just at 600 MP, would safeguard our health completely. While one could say it would be too strong like this, it fixes the LD usability problems, and gives it a unique flavor that also requires a bit of skill to use.

[Alaray]

remove invulns

[Gemina]

remove invulns

Actually, I always felt that the ability to go invulnerable was a signature skill for PLD, and I wish it was exclusive to them. They still have the true invuln skill in the game, and the "preventing from hitting zero" abilities are all just watered down versions of it.

LD/WD actually works so well for DRK at least from a lore perspective. It makes sense that they don't necessarily go invulnerable, but rather can still come at you even after death, and you cannot kill what is already dead. It would be so flippin cool if WD's animation was still the DRK dropping, but Living Shadow comes out, and you have full control over it for a full 10 seconds, all the while the mob(s) relentlessly keep up their attack, hitting for 0 damage against the shadow.

WD status should honestly be lifted by casting Raise.