Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

[StealthPaladin]

Im surprised to see such a seemingly innocent request from a minority is being given "Oh not this shit again" by some in here.

I mean, does an inclusion of an LGBT character hurt anyone? Does the TC actually requested said character to hold the big "I AM GAY" banner with flashing siren as he or she is introduced? No? So why the seeming hostility towards the idea? Is it one of those "please don't politicize my game" sentiment?

I think a minority representation in something extremely popular like FFXIV is always gonna be a positive thing, and there's no need to reject the idea or to push it back due to some silly notion that it will "ruin" the game or anything like that, it's not going to hurt anyone or anything.

Yes actually it does hurt some people. For every person that find it to be a virtue to accept, there are 10 times more who tolerate something because they value freedom of choice -- not endorse it. Many of us believe EVERYONE should keep such preferences in the confines of their own bedroom.

To those people, such requests are basically a slap in the face. You may wish to browbeat them into feigning "acceptance" when that is not their honest opinion, but you should be thankful that such folks don't honestly want to ostracize those who think differently than themselves, so don't abuse that kindness. Then of course you also have people that would be as offended by the inclusion of such content. After that there would be the category of those offended by not explicitly taking a stance against LGBT stuff.

AFTER those groups you have a significant group of players from 13-18 whom may well be not allowed to play anymore. That's perhaps the most sad and cruel as the next generation of Final Fantasy fans.

It is unwise for commercial entities to take stances on such issues, for every special interest that is pandered to there are many more whose experience is damaged to a varying degree. Further it is rather gross for you to want them to, rather than to express their own artistic inclinations. Make your own game if you want to see your inclinations reflected.

Rather ridiculous than anyone has to tell you this. The above stratification of preferences applies to basically everything that anyone has an opinion about ever. For you to think it is OK to ask for special treatment demonstrates that the problem isn't one of you missing out on anything, but that you believe yourself special and above others. That all should bow to thy whims.

Nope

[Xirean]

Yes actually it does hurt some people. For every person that find it to be a virtue to accept, there are 10 times more who tolerate something because they value freedom of choice -- not endorse it. Many of us believe EVERYONE should keep such preferences in the confines of their own bedroom.

To those people, such requests are basically a slap in the face. You may wish to browbeat them into feigning "acceptance" when that is not their honest opinion, but you should be thankful that such folks don't honestly want to ostracize those who think differently than themselves, so don't abuse that kindness. Then of course you also have people that would be as offended by the inclusion of such content. After that there would be the category of those offended by not explicitly taking a stance against LGBT stuff.

AFTER those groups you have a significant group of players from 13-18 whom may well be not allowed to play anymore. That's perhaps the most sad and cruel as the next generation of Final Fantasy fans.

It is unwise for commercial entities to take stances on such issues, for every special interest that is pandered to there are many more whose experience is damaged to a varying degree. Further it is rather gross for you to want them to, rather than to express their own artistic inclinations. Make your own game if you want to see your inclinations reflected.

Do you get this beat out of shape seeing a gay couple in public? Must be a difficult life.

[AziraSyuren]

Do you get this beat out of shape seeing a gay couple in public? Must be a difficult life.

"I'm okay with it as long as I get to pretend it doesn't exist" arguments are the best. They're so transparent.

[StealthPaladin]

no i basically do this to every small issue
i'm a real hoot at parties

if you actually read carefully, what i've done is just pretend that the question i replied to was a serious one, and responded with the truth.

[Thorio]

Im surprised to see such a seemingly innocent request from a minority is being given "Oh not this shit again" by some in here.

I mean, does an inclusion of an LGBT character hurt anyone? Does the TC actually requested said character to hold the big "I AM GAY" banner with flashing siren as he or she is introduced? No? So why the seeming hostility towards the idea? Is it one of those "please don't politicize my game" sentiment?

I think a minority representation in something extremely popular like FFXIV is always gonna be a positive thing, and there's no need to reject the idea or to push it back due to some silly notion that it will "ruin" the game or anything like that, it's not going to hurt anyone or anything.

I dunno, I for one do not care about petty things like real-world representation in my fantasy game. I don't need to #relatable to enjoy it.

[Puksi]

Naoki Yoshida:

"I was heading to the office on a Saturday and I saw a situation that made me very sad. I was trying to go into the office and I was waiting at a red light. I saw a high schooler coming from the other side of the road in their school uniform. It seemed that they were biologically male at birth but they were wearing a sailor fuku, which is traditionally female attire. In Japanese high schools, there’s more and more schools that are accommodating for freedom of not being restricted to a specific gender for your uniform...That person probably wanted to present the gender they identified with in their heart...On the other side of the road was a mother and a daughter. The daughter was perhaps 5 years old. As soon as the mother saw the high schooler, she shielded her daughter as if she didn’t want her daughter to see. The high schooler must have been very hurt. Situations like these still happen and there’s areas where there’s not as much understanding.

We need to see more change in the values people have, and we need to consider for Final Fantasy XIV how we push forward in-game and how we represent it.

That being said, we want to address this, and I think it will be gradual...For instance, for the Ceremony of Eternal Bonding, we’ve already started to make adjustments. Once we officially release this, you won’t have gender restrictions. If you both wanted to wear a dress, that’s perfectly fine. If you want to both wear the tuxedo, that would also be fine...That’s not available in game yet, but we have done the preparations for it.

You may be familiar with the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Parade where we had a Final Fantasy XIV float participate. After that event, players in the Korean regions were very uncomfortable with it and people made complaints about now wanting to see that. “This is disgusting!” Things like that. It’s been very tough.

Change is happening. People are becoming more aware and understanding. Values do shift, but I think the pace...is very different depending on individuals. It’s a difficult and delicate situation. It requires us to understand and know how things are around the world."

Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Parade:

"Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is an LGBTQIA+ not-for-profit member-based organisation that produces the internationally recognised Mardi Gras Parade and Festival, and several other events and supportive initiatives throughout the year."

This thread, but with FFXIV's and Square-Enix's stance. Please look forward to it.

[forsakee]

Naoki Yoshida:

Change is happening. People are becoming more aware and understanding. Values do shift, but I think the pace...is very different depending on individuals. It’s a difficult and delicate situation. It requires us to understand and know how things are around the world."

Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Parade:

"Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is an LGBTQIA+ not-for-profit member-based organisation that produces the internationally recognised Mardi Gras Parade and Festival, and several other events and supportive initiatives throughout the year."

This thread, but with FFXIV's and Square-Enix's stance. Please look forward to it.

This worries me not because of "LGBQT" rights but how it's actually going to play out in the "REAL WORLD". Governments making developers change or straight up banning a video game because of some ones ideals. Plus it also go against some peoples "religions" and laws in their country. This could lead to billions lost for SE and could lead to some ff14 players being kicked off of the game due to their government.

Plus when a developer adds such content just to remove it for other versions of the same game is that really the representation you want?

[Darthgummibear]

This worries me not because of "LGBQT" rights but how it's actually going to play out in the "REAL WORLD". Governments making developers change or straight up banning a video game because of some ones ideals. Plus it also go against some peoples "religions" and laws in their country. This could lead to billions lost for SE and could lead to some ff14 players being kicked off of the game due to their government.

Plus when a developer adds such content just to remove it for other versions of the same game is that really the representation you want?

Almost every instance of corporate support for that community is tokenism or virtue signaling. They don't actually care.

[Puksi]

They've made their decision, and it's one I applaud them for. I'm sure the money vs. doing what's right conversation happened--this is $quare after all--so I'm sure there's no need for you to worry so much on their behalf. It's good to see gaming companies growing up, tbh. If only some of the playerbase would do the same.

Edit - The "tokenism" take always amuses me. On one hand folks who make this argument will sneer that the LGBTQIA+ community is a minority and therefore requires no representation. Yet somehow, it's also influential enough to make large corporations take some kind of financial risk by treating the "minority" like people, against what they claim the "majority" wants. Maybe the majority really doesn't care so much. Maybe it's just a you problem. It must be exhausting being that invested in how other people live their lives. Exhausting, and terribly lacking in your own.

[forsakee]

They've made their decision, and it's one I applaud them for. I'm sure the money vs. doing what's right conversation happened--this is $quare after all--so I'm sure there's no need for you to worry so much on their behalf. It's good to see gaming companies growing up, tbh. If only some of the playerbase would do the same.

You didnt answer my question about companies just reverting changes,
So your okay with a company putting up 2 fronts? How do you know which stance is actually true?
Is this the representation that you desire and wont cause issues in the future?