Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

[KayRadley]

Radley's second law: All characters are pansexual unless explicitly stated otherwise.

[MikkoAkure]

This is incorrect, the eternal bond was always same-sex available.

I re-looked it up since I thought I remember it being a thing, and Yoshi-P had said in a live letter that there would be no same-sex marriage in-game at first, and then later changed his mind and it was released with same-sex marriage.

As for same-sex marriage, this is an extremely controversial topic that has been under discussion in the MMO world for the past few years. First we would like to start out with opposite-sex marriage, and then consider the feedback from our players in order to make a careful decision. I can't say whether or not it will be possible at this point in time. I'd like to keep dialog open with our players as we deliberate the matter.

Back when I played FFXI, they did not support same-sex marriage. I don't know if it's changed since then.

[Gothicshark]

I think you are doing some reaching with your examples. He's just wearing robes that have no sleeves. It's still a robe. That does not look gender fluid (whatever that would look like anyway) or queer at all.




I'd like to point out that eorzea probably doesnt have a very good understanding on genetics, and likely refer to them as identical due to appearance. One egg can produce 2 children of different genders, and while not genetically identical because sex, the rest may be.

Also, Krile has known him for ages, and mentions teasing him a lot. I don't think she's ever mentioned him changing the way he dresses though.

This just seems like more reaching.

For someone who is genderfluid, gender is a suggestion, not a fixed point. It's a very queer and lovely state of being, and something the Japanese do often. All you need to do is look up Tokyo Fashion and look at street pictures to see tons of Genderfluid people. The 5.0 Urianger is a classic example of this, but for a real example, I give you Billy Porter's tuxedo dress.




or From Tokyo Fashion
https://tokyofashion.com/dark-tokyo-...ffle-umbrella/
https://tokyofashion.com/harajuku-fa...-body-harness/
https://tokyofashion.com/harajuku-me...chelsea-boots/

Japan has always been a bit Genderfluid, especially in Manga, Anime, and Video Games. The Final Fantasy series is no exception.


in reply to your edit: I too will stealth in an edit:

I'd like to point out that eorzea probably doesnt have a very good understanding on genetics, and likely refer to them as identical due to appearance. One egg can produce 2 children of different genders, and while not genetically identical because sex, the rest may be.

Also, Krile has known him for ages, and mentions teasing him a lot. I don't think she's ever mentioned him changing the way he dresses though.

This just seems like more reaching.

Eorzea is not technologically backward, and their understanding of science and medicine is probably far in advanced of reality, but the Developers exist in our world and know the difference between

双子
Futago

and

卵性双生児
Ichiranseisōseiji

they used both in the Japanese dialogue to describe them.

[Valic]

NPCs in the game don't need a giant banner saying whether they are LGBT. I am not quite sure why people these days obsess over a sexual orientation that has next to nothing to do with the game. The game isn't a pride event, nor are they obligated to represent a minority. The vast majority of NPCs the WoL interacts with are neutral considering the WoL can be male or female. Very few characters are like Thancred, whose orientation is very clear. Just let your imagination run wild.

This sums up this thread very well.

[Gothicshark]

sigh
,basically what gemina said.
i just dont understand why lgbt people feel like they need to be represented /eveywhere/ or they feel as if they dont exist. this debate came up on another mmo forum i played. its just a fantasy world in general, so i dont know what people are expecting.

Because being marginalized, is a crappy thing to feel. When I see people like you saying crap like this, I'm reminded how it was still illegal to have gay sex in many parts of the US until 2003. I am reminded daily as a Transgender person, that I'm a second class citizen, even though I live in a supposed liberal State.

Asking for representation is asking for people to help us achieve basic equality. Nothing more. I want the same rights and protections everyone else has, sadly here in the US, and the Majority of the world we don't have it. And in some parts, we can be killed for who we are.

When was the last time a Heterosexual Cisgender person was executed for being straight? When was the last time a doctor denied your treatment because of your cisgender status? Me, I was denied surgery last December for being Transgender from the Veterans Hospital here in Los Angeles California.

Why do we want acknowledgment, because of this sh** we have to face daily.

--

oh and the VA got away with it because of that Hate-Monger who stole the White House on Russian money.

[Kes13a]

Radley's second law: All characters are pansexual unless explicitly stated otherwise.

I like this. its how I imagine most guys, normal until they prove otherwise. besides, if you are sending me off to my death or trying to kill me, I dont care how you identify, its meaningless. Although if Hilda decided to come out, I am moving to Ishgard ^^

[Bellsong]

Representation is generally a good thing, and shouldn't be such a hot button issue. But the lack of prominent LGBT characters also shouldn't be taken as that community being "Unwanted" or anything as well, especially considering 2019 Mardi Gras. (https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/002680.html for those curious.)

At the end of the day though, FF really doesn't delve too hard into characters romantic interests often, and when they do it's normally played up just for laughs like with the warrior quests and little sun.

[Shinklet]

People always fall for this guys bait posts I swear, I can just imagine him giggling, posting the thread to his discord buds. Check his history and stop getting baited.

[Shougun]

For the thread (in general, obviously OP made a real hit of a bait thread lol), I think SE has done a wonderful job making things exist but not matter (no character felt like a flag for the sake of a flag, getting that sweet virtue points- especially tired of companies that do that since they all seem to stick their head 9000 yalms into the ground when it comes to China, and just bash / parade the easy and profitable things). I hope they continue this. That doesn't mean a main character can't be a certain way (I'm aware it can sound like "so long as it's in the background and so subtle it doesn't exist"), but that they are treated as if it 'doesn't matter' and not treat treated like some award ceremony speech. It comes about naturally, it's not vegan cross fit trainer meme, and we all move on with our day because, I thought, we want to live in the world where this stuff doesn't have importance to our judgements on each other.

Noting as well this is not the real world where you might get protested or something, the game world needs to act like it exists as it does within the game world and not like a weird limbo between (unless they set the game word up to parallel our own, but I need to see some more crazy people on the streets then), so particularly further just 'doesn't matter' for Eorzea.

FFXIV showing how it should exist, I like that. Hope they keep up with that attitude.

Sexuality is a major part of any persons character development. Take me for instance, I'm Trans and Pan, in the 90s as a 20+ GRaver doing drugs, doing Raves, having sex with lots of people, you could easily say my sexuality and my personality at that time were a linked commodity.

As noted above, Emet-Selch, just wouldn't have worked as a character if he wasn't played sassy and queer. Just like Elidibus wouldn't have worked if he wasn't so very hetero.

Sexuality is a major part of character development, and I'm sure they have pocket notes on character sexuality not seen by the player base, to help with character interactions, there are several very clearly gay couples in the game, but they never explicitly state this. Which is both good and bad, good because they have plausible denial if asked by China or Russia, or any Islamic country. But at the same time, they put in enough clues that we of the LGBTQ+ community can see them as apart of our family.

Eh . .

I don't think Emet has to be bi or whatever to be Emet. I feel like we're going backwards here where sexuality isn't supposed to define who you are. If you're a certain way because of your sexuality then it seems reasonable to say certain sexuality may or may not be better at certain things, like not "well sure I guess but it shouldn't matter" but like actually just better. "He couldn't have been that way if it wasn't for being queer". Because if we're saying you can't make Emet without him being Bi (or whatever) and that it's an important feature to him being him, then many things begin to reason from that which I think people do not want to give birth to.

As far as I'm concerned Emet was nothing sexual, maybe he gave off hints to you, but regardless he could have been anything or nothing. Being catty doesn't require you to be queer.. or whatever else. Plenty of catty heterosexual people. Also our boy edi isn't hetro, the dude is an embodiment of an idea. He's not going around and being like 'Shiva, you fyneee'. He exists for one reason and one reason alone.

Either there are defining traits to sexuality that allows one to create realistic, fair, and accurate judgments, or there are not- similarly said to the topic of gender. Like one might suggest a difference but not enough for it to be a thing we should let matter into preventing someone from doing something- like you might say strength but if someone passes the test, one used because a job demands it and not to artificially filter people out, then who cares what they've got, passed the test lets keep this train moving people.

Can't be like it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, we're all the same, on one issue and then make it a defining characteristic that makes them them and it totally matters when it's helpful to the argument.

Especially as this isn't the real world and so you can't even argue the same sort of struggles that may have had ripples through someone's life, Eorzea doesn't have the same hang ups the real world can have- so many real world arguments of "well it shouldn't have but look this event when I was a kid really impacted me".

I like the way FFXIV, and media like it, deals with this stuff. It's not important (in so much it 'makes them' and they couldn't be 'them' without it), but it does exist. I know sometimes in life you don't get the luxury of acting this way but I greatly prefer people act the way they want the world to be as I feel it's wonderful way to lead and be proof of concept. Sometimes so subtly because it's none of your business type of deal. For example the only time I've announced my sexuality was when it was in direct question, never have I ever just announced the way I am without being requested to. This shouldn't be like a vegan crossfit meme. Even someone might confuse two same couples because they were close, or good opposite friends, some skinship or whatever, even if someone is in contact with another or even flirtatious doesn't actually mean anything for proof (though may lead to guesses).

It's a thing, but it generally doesn't matter (might pick your life partner based off it, so you can be happy physically as well as mentally, but you'll not hire, fire, befriend, or generally coexist with anyone differently because of it). Or it's a thing, and it generally matters.

I am concerned on the concept that it matters to the point that a person couldn't be said person without it- it leads, with logical reasons, to other less savory judgements being valid (as if it matters then it matters even when you don't want it to, don't get to make and eat your cake like that in this world where everyone is a chef in the kitchen).

As I thought people were sick of being put into boxes they didn't want to be in just because of silly things like wanting to wear a certain cloth or partner with certain set of tools. Yet what I feel like I read quite often, is rules for me when they're convenient and rules for thee when they help me but I'm not going to follow any sort of consistent rules if they become inconvenient. Either this stuff is a defining trait that shapes your core, which has significant repercussions, or it's not and people are ruining other people's lives because of a hang up that is a waste of time. There are opportunities where it could define a single person, due to some special circumstance (anything from trauma to 'this is how I make my money'), but to argue that is a general truth . .. "eh..." lol.

Ultimately I would much rather say your personality determined how you displayed your sexuality, rather than the opposite. Such that a boisterous hetro or calm hetro are clearly different in relationships, just like you might say about a gay person (some people dress alluringly and flirt others don't, the sexual orientation had little matter on this). Not that being gay informed their personality (excluding perhaps some direct trauma, we're talking more ideal world, since this is a fantasy game, as well not everyone responds to trauma the same or at all just because it exists). Which goes back to Emet doesn't need to have a specific sexuality to be Emet.

[Gothicshark]

People always fall for this guys bait posts I swear, I can just imagine him giggling, posting the thread to his discord buds. Check his history and stop getting baited.

He might be a trollolo type, but this subject isn't a bad one to discuss, especially with the amount of Hetcis hate posts here.