Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

[Gothicshark]

So your sexuality makes your character and not the person?

Sexuality is a major part of any persons character development. Take me for instance, I'm Trans and Pan, in the 90s as a 20+ GRaver doing drugs, doing Raves, having sex with lots of people, you could easily say my sexuality and my personality at that time were a linked commodity.

As noted above, Emet-Selch, just wouldn't have worked as a character if he wasn't played sassy and queer. Just like Elidibus wouldn't have worked if he wasn't so very hetero.

Sexuality is a major part of character development, and I'm sure they have pocket notes on character sexuality not seen by the player base, to help with character interactions, there are several very clearly gay couples in the game, but they never explicitly state this. Which is both good and bad, good because they have plausible denial if asked by China or Russia, or any Islamic country. But at the same time, they put in enough clues that we of the LGBTQ+ community can see them as apart of our family.

Is this just an another political tick box check request?

Honestly, the OP is probably a troll bait poster, but the request is not a political tick box for this game. You realize Final Fantasy games in general, and Final Fantasy 14 especially are very popular with the queer community, and have been so for years, as many of the main characters are very clearly "coded queer".

I wouldn't be shocked if over 30% of the player base in this game was LGBTQ+.

Oh and, "Coded Queer" is an entertainment term, basically to get past sensors in the past the Film industry hide gay characters in plain sight, but never explicitly said they were. They would get the actor to play the character gay, whether or not they knew it. ie Ben Hur. Final Fantasy has always had a lot of coded queer characters. 14 has a ton of them BTW, Cid, Nero, Emet-Selch, Alphinaud, Alisaie, Urianger, and many others. This is compounded with flat out gay couples left and right, who go over and above the typical Queer Coding, where they are clearly a gay couple even if they don't say it out loud.

I'm fine with a homosexual character but it has to be character first and sexuality later.

This is the typical straight dismissive idea, you are fine when they force hetero couple in peoples faces, but get dismissive when people want gay ones. The MMO I used to play did this all the time, and it infuriates me they are going that path with a Queer coded main character. I stopped watching the Expanse in the second season when they had two queer coded characters have heterosexual sex, it just annoyed the hell out of me, yet straight people didn't even notice nor care that it was wrong.

[Gothicshark]

Which makes it very curious why people are so mad at me asking for more representation. Surely it cannot be the rampant homophobia in this community...

There has been an influx of players coming from a very anti-LGBT gaming community. They use to play that popular MMO from Irvine California, the one that allowed a very toxic community to thrive. The reality is Square has always been very pro-LGBTQ+, but the World isn't quite ready for all their Gay, Bi, and Trans characters to come out of the closet.

In fact, Japanese Video Game productions have always had tons of LGBTQ+ characters, sadly they use to use the term "New Type" which was a slang term for a Trans woman. Several main characters in early games were "New Type".

LGBTQ+ and Japanese games have gone hand in hand since the 80s. Final Fantasy being especially stand out in this.

[Gothicshark]

...not to mention the championing of unconventional gender roles in the pixies and dwarves.

Glad you mentioned that, since the Pixies, for the most part, are expressed in a Non-Binary (aka NB/Enby) sort of way. I love that you can use any pronouns with them, and the Pixies use both for themselves in both English and Japanese, so it is clear that the game devs wanted them to be NB.

The Dwarves are following the trope of Dwarven Females have beards, in the silliest way possible. It's just clothing. Also as someone whose mained a Lalafell, I love that most of the Random Dwarves are using Female Lala's. It's hard to tell, but a trained eye can spot it.

[MikkoAkure]

Also, the style and themes of the game are very LGBTQ+, so it's kind of hard not to think that the production staff has influential LGBTQ+ members leading the designs for gear and zones.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. Other than the examples mentioned by the poster above you in this thread, there isn't much else going on other than prostitutes or flirty background NPCs trying to sleep with your character regardless of your gender and there's a lot more examples of aggressively hetero interactions between NPCs. Unfortunately, the country the game is made in is not very progressive and doesn't allow same-sex marriage. We didn't even get in-game same-sex marriage when eternal bonding was first released and we had to constantly ask for that along with gender-unlocked outfits. The director of the game has even said that male viera make him uncomfortable.

They've included some better examples of same-sex romance that don't use tired, negative tropes than I would have expected. But considering past comments from the director and the design team on other things, I don't think the examples you used were explicitly designed to be that way and you might be seeing more into things than what's really there.

[Penthea]

Yeah, but he's WOL-sexual, which means if you play a female character he's no longer LGBT (because in your universe, you were always female).

What is this even supposed to mean?

Personally I'd prefer LGBTQ+ representation do be done without highlighting too much about this because that can end up feeling gimmicky. If a character's primary trait is their gender or sexuality it can come off as little more than hollow virtue signaling. When everything else about the character is an afterthought (being good at combat, science, etc) it's not good representation. Everyone is multi-faceted, so every character should be presented this way regardless of gender and sexuality.

Also we are not explicitly told that every character we meet is cis and straight, so we can't assume this is absolutely the case for every npc we have met.

That being said it would be nice if it was more obvious if some characters are intended to be LGBTQ+. I just don't want it to be done in a way in which it's obvious SE is screaming "LOOK LOOK, THIS CHARACTER IS GAY, LOOK AT HIM" I'd prefer it to be shown as simply one of many things that make up the character.

[Gothicshark]

...
TLDR: There is plenty of representation and just adding more for the sake of it would just be obnoxious

Also hi Titanmen running out of material or recycling it, I seem to remember an old version of this very thread a few years back, how long you been playing this waiting game.

great list, there's more, but I think the funniest bit is Alphinaud, there are several times NPCs refer to him as a girl, and there is a constant evolution of his masculinity. Almost as if he's a Trans man, and started his transition just prior to our officially meeting him. Also, they are referred to as identical twins at least once.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

There's very little in the ways of romance at all, and none of which involves our own characters since it is not that sort of game. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know, but I can't say I recall too many relationships beyond the prominent miqo'te couple in Eulmore being of any importance at all. Almost every major character in the game is single- and as the game is linear without choices they aren't going to force the WoL into a relationship since I'm sure most people would have a different opinion on whom the WoL would be in a relationship with. Frankly I think since the WoL is an extension of ourselves, of all the orientations to be concerned about that's the one- and afaik there's no marriage restrictions, so seems they have no problem with us choosing our character's orientation.

They have however left a great deal of their characters with unknown orientation- which is perhaps the best way of doing it because straight people can assume they're all straight, and LGBT can assume they're not, giving both a large selection of people who conform to their ideals.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. Other than the examples mentioned by the poster above you in this thread, there isn't much else going on other than prostitutes or flirty background NPCs trying to sleep with your character regardless of your gender and there's a lot more examples of aggressively hetero interactions between NPCs. Unfortunately, the country the game is made in is not very progressive and doesn't allow same-sex marriage. We didn't even get in-game same-sex marriage when eternal bonding was first released and we had to constantly ask for that along with gender-unlocked outfits. The director of the game has even said that male viera make him uncomfortable.

They've included some better examples of same-sex romance that don't use tired, negative tropes than I would have expected. But considering past comments from the director and the design team on other things, I don't think the examples you used were explicitly designed to be that way and you might be seeing more into things than what's really there.

This is incorrect, the eternal bond was always same-sex available.

[Gothicshark]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. Other than the examples mentioned by the poster above you in this thread, there isn't much else going on other than prostitutes or flirty background NPCs trying to sleep with your character regardless of your gender and there's a lot more examples of aggressively hetero interactions between NPCs. Unfortunately, the country the game is made in is not very progressive and doesn't allow same-sex marriage. We didn't even get in-game same-sex marriage when eternal bonding was first released and we had to constantly ask for that along with gender-unlocked outfits. The director of the game has even said that male viera make him uncomfortable.

They've included some better examples of same-sex romance that don't use tired, negative tropes than I would have expected. But considering past comments from the director and the design team on other things, I don't think the examples you used were explicitly designed to be that way and you might be seeing more into things than what's really there.

Il Mheg, and the Pixies are great examples. The zone is filled with queer tropes. Pixies are shown to be non-binary. There are rainbows, pink hues, and tons of queer visuals.

But let's look at Urianger. His old robes are classic mage type robes and give away nothing about his sexuality,

he is shown as just a nerd, with a strong emotional attachment to Moenbryda, in Shadowbringer, he changes his look significantly, and to a very genderfluid and queer look. His robes no longer look like a mage's robes, but instead a fairly sexy black silk dress, decorated in a magical way.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Il Mheg, and the Pixies are great examples. The zone is filled with queer tropes. Pixies are shown to be non-binary. There are rainbows, pink hues, and tons of queer visuals.

But let's look at Urianger. His old robes are classic mage type robes and give away nothing about his sexuality,

he is shown as just a nerd, with a strong emotional attachment to Moenbryda, in Shadowbringer, he changes his look significantly, and to a very genderfluid and queer look. His robes no longer look like a mage's robes, but instead a fairly sexy black silk dress, decorated in a magical way.

I think you are doing some reaching with your examples. He's just wearing robes that have no sleeves. It's still a robe. That does not look gender fluid (whatever that would look like anyway) or queer at all.

great list, there's more, but I think the funniest bit is Alphinaud, there are several times NPCs refer to him as a girl, and there is a constant evolution of his masculinity. Almost as if he's a Trans man, and started his transition just prior to our officially meeting him. Also, they are referred to as identical twins at least once.

I'd like to point out that eorzea probably doesnt have a very good understanding on genetics, and likely refer to them as identical due to appearance. One egg can produce 2 children of different genders, and while not genetically identical because sex, the rest may be.

Also, Krile has known him for ages, and mentions teasing him a lot. I don't think she's ever mentioned him changing the way he dresses though.

This just seems like more reaching.