Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

[Crushnight]

There are a few gay people in the world, they just don't have the "Look at me I'm a gay character" trope attached, the characters are treated like they are just there as part of the world and imo that is the absolute best outcome because gay people aren't any different from everyone else nor is a trans person nor is a lesbian and so on and so on, we are all just people that just happen to have a different preference.

The number of people shown as LGBTQ+ is also low but that is reasonable because we are a minority.

Small list of npcs I found
-the couple for Wanderer's Palace HM, they were persecuted for being mixed race not for being same gender, this gives us a good idea that society does not care about sexual preference being the same gender, this type of view is further supported by Ishgard with Hume and Elezen affairs being the most scandalous of gossip.
-"Stupid Sexy Rodegyn" guy, a reference to us but he is attracted to that Roe in universe
-"Lower, Lower" Roe and dude scrubbing his back, again another reference to us but taken as in universe that Roe wants that man to give him a happy ending wink wink knudge knudge
-Budunga tribe(the green tribe with Magnai) they are an all male tribe, they take male children either by force or trade, stands to reason that there would be at least 1 or 2 tribe members liking their fellow tribe members they grew up with(all boy school situation, it is more likely to happen than a mixed school).
-Hingashi culture in general, male prostitutes who have no qualms with male clients, villain with obvious villain moustache in Hildabrand regularly sees males crossdressing.
-EB ceremonies don't discriminate ever, in universe just shows how accepting the staff for the church there is.
-Little Ladies Day 2018, the girl band group ask my male character was I waiting for my Senchestal implying they were thinking me as a princess, they didn't bat an eye at this so it is not unheard of a guy being pampered on Little Ladies Day, it is just not the norm.(sorta want a Little Ladies Day to actually go further along this route even if a side part of the event)
-The current Rising event NPC couple, I fully take them as a couple, others take them as friends, no one is wrong in thinking either, you never ask so they never tell sorta like real life relationships.

Representation for Representation sake usually leads to the character in question as a shallow puddle where their representation is all that matters I do not want that because I am sick of just being a token character in a story, we are people that have many different qualities that make us who we are.

TLDR: There is plenty of representation and just adding more for the sake of it would just be obnoxious

Also hi Titanmen running out of material or recycling it, I seem to remember an old version of this very thread a few years back, how long you been playing this waiting game.

[Gothicshark]

...
TLDR: There is plenty of representation and just adding more for the sake of it would just be obnoxious

Also hi Titanmen running out of material or recycling it, I seem to remember an old version of this very thread a few years back, how long you been playing this waiting game.

great list, there's more, but I think the funniest bit is Alphinaud, there are several times NPCs refer to him as a girl, and there is a constant evolution of his masculinity. Almost as if he's a Trans man, and started his transition just prior to our officially meeting him. Also, they are referred to as identical twins at least once.

[Gothicshark]

I'm Trans and Pan.

I agree that the few characters who most likely are members of the LGBTQ+ family should come out to the fans in the western world, maybe not in China or Russia, but (insert rude comment about the homophobic laws of those nations)

There are a lot of hints that out of the scions several could be apart of our club. ie Alphinaud might be Bi and Trans, Urianger might be ace-demi with a bit of genderfluidity.

Also, the style and themes of the game are very LGBTQ+, so it's kind of hard not to think that the production staff has influential LGBTQ+ members leading the designs for gear and zones.

[MikkoAkure]

Also, the style and themes of the game are very LGBTQ+, so it's kind of hard not to think that the production staff has influential LGBTQ+ members leading the designs for gear and zones.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. Other than the examples mentioned by the poster above you in this thread, there isn't much else going on other than prostitutes or flirty background NPCs trying to sleep with your character regardless of your gender and there's a lot more examples of aggressively hetero interactions between NPCs. Unfortunately, the country the game is made in is not very progressive and doesn't allow same-sex marriage. We didn't even get in-game same-sex marriage when eternal bonding was first released and we had to constantly ask for that along with gender-unlocked outfits. The director of the game has even said that male viera make him uncomfortable.

They've included some better examples of same-sex romance that don't use tired, negative tropes than I would have expected. But considering past comments from the director and the design team on other things, I don't think the examples you used were explicitly designed to be that way and you might be seeing more into things than what's really there.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. Other than the examples mentioned by the poster above you in this thread, there isn't much else going on other than prostitutes or flirty background NPCs trying to sleep with your character regardless of your gender and there's a lot more examples of aggressively hetero interactions between NPCs. Unfortunately, the country the game is made in is not very progressive and doesn't allow same-sex marriage. We didn't even get in-game same-sex marriage when eternal bonding was first released and we had to constantly ask for that along with gender-unlocked outfits. The director of the game has even said that male viera make him uncomfortable.

They've included some better examples of same-sex romance that don't use tired, negative tropes than I would have expected. But considering past comments from the director and the design team on other things, I don't think the examples you used were explicitly designed to be that way and you might be seeing more into things than what's really there.

This is incorrect, the eternal bond was always same-sex available.

[MikkoAkure]

This is incorrect, the eternal bond was always same-sex available.

I re-looked it up since I thought I remember it being a thing, and Yoshi-P had said in a live letter that there would be no same-sex marriage in-game at first, and then later changed his mind and it was released with same-sex marriage.

As for same-sex marriage, this is an extremely controversial topic that has been under discussion in the MMO world for the past few years. First we would like to start out with opposite-sex marriage, and then consider the feedback from our players in order to make a careful decision. I can't say whether or not it will be possible at this point in time. I'd like to keep dialog open with our players as we deliberate the matter.

Back when I played FFXI, they did not support same-sex marriage. I don't know if it's changed since then.

[Gothicshark]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing. Other than the examples mentioned by the poster above you in this thread, there isn't much else going on other than prostitutes or flirty background NPCs trying to sleep with your character regardless of your gender and there's a lot more examples of aggressively hetero interactions between NPCs. Unfortunately, the country the game is made in is not very progressive and doesn't allow same-sex marriage. We didn't even get in-game same-sex marriage when eternal bonding was first released and we had to constantly ask for that along with gender-unlocked outfits. The director of the game has even said that male viera make him uncomfortable.

They've included some better examples of same-sex romance that don't use tired, negative tropes than I would have expected. But considering past comments from the director and the design team on other things, I don't think the examples you used were explicitly designed to be that way and you might be seeing more into things than what's really there.

Il Mheg, and the Pixies are great examples. The zone is filled with queer tropes. Pixies are shown to be non-binary. There are rainbows, pink hues, and tons of queer visuals.

But let's look at Urianger. His old robes are classic mage type robes and give away nothing about his sexuality,

he is shown as just a nerd, with a strong emotional attachment to Moenbryda, in Shadowbringer, he changes his look significantly, and to a very genderfluid and queer look. His robes no longer look like a mage's robes, but instead a fairly sexy black silk dress, decorated in a magical way.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Il Mheg, and the Pixies are great examples. The zone is filled with queer tropes. Pixies are shown to be non-binary. There are rainbows, pink hues, and tons of queer visuals.

But let's look at Urianger. His old robes are classic mage type robes and give away nothing about his sexuality,

he is shown as just a nerd, with a strong emotional attachment to Moenbryda, in Shadowbringer, he changes his look significantly, and to a very genderfluid and queer look. His robes no longer look like a mage's robes, but instead a fairly sexy black silk dress, decorated in a magical way.

I think you are doing some reaching with your examples. He's just wearing robes that have no sleeves. It's still a robe. That does not look gender fluid (whatever that would look like anyway) or queer at all.

great list, there's more, but I think the funniest bit is Alphinaud, there are several times NPCs refer to him as a girl, and there is a constant evolution of his masculinity. Almost as if he's a Trans man, and started his transition just prior to our officially meeting him. Also, they are referred to as identical twins at least once.

I'd like to point out that eorzea probably doesnt have a very good understanding on genetics, and likely refer to them as identical due to appearance. One egg can produce 2 children of different genders, and while not genetically identical because sex, the rest may be.

Also, Krile has known him for ages, and mentions teasing him a lot. I don't think she's ever mentioned him changing the way he dresses though.

This just seems like more reaching.

[Gothicshark]

I think you are doing some reaching with your examples. He's just wearing robes that have no sleeves. It's still a robe. That does not look gender fluid (whatever that would look like anyway) or queer at all.




I'd like to point out that eorzea probably doesnt have a very good understanding on genetics, and likely refer to them as identical due to appearance. One egg can produce 2 children of different genders, and while not genetically identical because sex, the rest may be.

Also, Krile has known him for ages, and mentions teasing him a lot. I don't think she's ever mentioned him changing the way he dresses though.

This just seems like more reaching.

For someone who is genderfluid, gender is a suggestion, not a fixed point. It's a very queer and lovely state of being, and something the Japanese do often. All you need to do is look up Tokyo Fashion and look at street pictures to see tons of Genderfluid people. The 5.0 Urianger is a classic example of this, but for a real example, I give you Billy Porter's tuxedo dress.




or From Tokyo Fashion
https://tokyofashion.com/dark-tokyo-...ffle-umbrella/
https://tokyofashion.com/harajuku-fa...-body-harness/
https://tokyofashion.com/harajuku-me...chelsea-boots/

Japan has always been a bit Genderfluid, especially in Manga, Anime, and Video Games. The Final Fantasy series is no exception.


in reply to your edit: I too will stealth in an edit:

I'd like to point out that eorzea probably doesnt have a very good understanding on genetics, and likely refer to them as identical due to appearance. One egg can produce 2 children of different genders, and while not genetically identical because sex, the rest may be.

Also, Krile has known him for ages, and mentions teasing him a lot. I don't think she's ever mentioned him changing the way he dresses though.

This just seems like more reaching.

Eorzea is not technologically backward, and their understanding of science and medicine is probably far in advanced of reality, but the Developers exist in our world and know the difference between

双子
Futago

and

卵性双生児
Ichiranseisōseiji

they used both in the Japanese dialogue to describe them.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

There's very little in the ways of romance at all, and none of which involves our own characters since it is not that sort of game. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know, but I can't say I recall too many relationships beyond the prominent miqo'te couple in Eulmore being of any importance at all. Almost every major character in the game is single- and as the game is linear without choices they aren't going to force the WoL into a relationship since I'm sure most people would have a different opinion on whom the WoL would be in a relationship with. Frankly I think since the WoL is an extension of ourselves, of all the orientations to be concerned about that's the one- and afaik there's no marriage restrictions, so seems they have no problem with us choosing our character's orientation.

They have however left a great deal of their characters with unknown orientation- which is perhaps the best way of doing it because straight people can assume they're all straight, and LGBT can assume they're not, giving both a large selection of people who conform to their ideals.