Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

[Darthgummibear]

Making characters whose only singular purpose is to say "I love X person of my gender" or "I don't feel comfortable with my assigned gender" isn't good representation. And people not wanting LGBT characters in this game simply because they think that will be how they're written should understand that it's honestly just as bad. No one wants that.

You say no one wants that, but the loudest portion of that community has made it pretty clear they will never be satisfied unless those attributes are front and center.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Interesting that people say that about Ryne and Gaia, but not Squall and Rinoa- the couple that those characters are based on. Squall and Rinoa were teenagers too, after all.

There are plenty of romantic stories about young, teenage couples experiencing a blossoming romance. Lots of stories delving into the romantic lives of teenage protagonists and their attempts to find dates. But for some reason I never see "it's weird that is story is about the sexuality of a teenager" when those characters are straight.

Only when LGBT romance is involved is the "sexuality of teenagers is weird" line trotted out. I wonder why that is.

I think there’s a fairly big diffference for some. Squall and Rinoa if i remember correctly are 17 almost 18. Ryne and Gaia are both 14-15. The problem here is the girls don’t do anything different that irl teen girls do already do on a regular basis. Are we going to start saying that girls having sleepovers are lesbians or into each other? Where do you draw the line on that.

It’s why i’ve just slowly began to back away from the whole lgbt community. In their quest and battle for representation they start trying to look for it in every little thing when it’s not there at all. People start using the rainbow crystal as an example even though we know there’s a story reason for the way it is. And as i’ve said before the lava in matoya’s dungeon is the same color for that same reason as well, so what is she gay too? This is what i mean.

I always depicted it as a tragic love story between Gaia/Loghrif and Mitron(which is further reflected on in the savage version where Mitron disappearing is what ultimately makes Gaia snap), and a story of two unlikely characters becoming close friends due to their similar experiences and tragedies. It’s pretty bad though that the moment, and i repeat the moment they showed the 5.4 cover art, there were multiple articles and people going “omg they’re gay. Omg they’re the first lgbt couple in final fantasy omg omg omg” simply because they were holding hands. Beyond ridiculous and this is what i mean with people reaching.

[Dzian]

However, the lack of representation of LGBT characters in this game is frustrating for a billion-dollar video gaming company. While I applaud SE for allowing the Eternal Bonding to take place between two people of the same gender, there is not much else in this game that represents LGBT characters, other than a token gay couple in Upper La Noscea.

How do you know?

Is there a comprhensive list of every npc in the game a long with there sexual orientation or how they identify?

For all we know 80% of the npcs in the game could be homosexual. You're just assuming thats not the case because they're not shouting out about it.

Sexuality / gender identity is very much an individul thing and in the grand scheme of things many people just don't care.

For example there's 2 transgender preople on my team at work. One is pretty well liked and generally perceived as a legend. The other is annoying af.. The difference being that one of them feels the need to shoe horn there sexuality or identity into every conversation they can and all it does it get peoples backs up because no one cares.... The other doesn't. they just crack on and participatei n the conversations normally. they're not hiding anything, Recently we were discussing what he could get his partner for his birthday. or the romantic weekend away they had for valentines... normal conversations.

The point is thats it's not something thats hidden, but at the same times it's not shoe horned into everything possible just for the sake of it..

In the game I'd say the same thing would apply. npcs orientation or sexuiality doesn't come up not because its hidden or anything but because it's really just not that important.

[Midareyukki]

You say no one wants that, but the loudest portion of that community has made it pretty clear they will never be satisfied unless those attributes are front and center.

Then they themselves don't know what they're asking.

It still doesn't mean that's representation.

Let them whine. You've seen other posts here in this website, do you think every single idea people have is good? If people don't think and care to know the topic and the concept, then it will never be done right.

But it also doesn't mean that it's wrong to ask for representation in general. Nor that it in itself is a bad thing. The reason I wrote all that is because I keep seeing people shut down the very idea without telling the people you're criticising "No, that's not how they should do it. No one in real life makes it their one unique trait to be gay, and neither should well-written fictional characters".

What they're asking for are token minority characters. Not representation. And we've been proven for the last 30 years how much of a bad idea those are.

So if people are going to criticise them, they should at least also know what representation really is. And why they shouldn't avert it entirely either. Because that's what I keep seeing. People see a bad interpretation of the concept, and deny the concept entirely.

[BrokentoothMarch]

Then they themselves don't know what they're asking.

It still doesn't mean that's representation.

Let them whine. You've seen other posts here in this website, do you think every single idea people have is good? If people don't think and care to know the topic and the concept, then it will never be done right.

But it also doesn't mean that it's wrong to ask for representation in general. Nor that it in itself is a bad thing. The reason I wrote all that is because I keep seeing people shut down the very idea without telling the people you're criticising "No, that's not how they should do it. No one in real life makes it their one unique trait to be gay, and neither should well-written fictional characters".

What they're asking for are token minority characters. Not representation. And we've been proven for the last 30 years how much of a bad idea those are.

So if people are going to criticise them, they should at least also know what representation really is. And why they shouldn't avert it entirely either. Because that's what I keep seeing. People see a bad interpretation of the concept, and deny the concept entirely.

Didn't expect to pop in and see someone reasonable. I heavily agree with you and your previous post. I just also agree that it seems many in earlier pages simply want token gay characters who exist for the sole purpose and traits that are stereotypically gay or otherwise. If there is a character built from the ground up with lore, backstory, struggles, humanization and they happen to be gay? That's fine. It's a normal person, honestly. But we actually do have a few representations like this already. Which means what's desired is your mentioned tokenism.

I still will not get over the fact that people mentioned being flamboyant or eccentric means you are absolutely gay, no discussion. If you are not flamboyant, you are absolutely straight. No discussion. I'm bewildered by the ironic bigotry.

[GrizzlyTank]

I still stand by the opinion that ambiguous relationships which they are currently doing works better since it lets us the reader decide who shags who.

[dustdjinn]

I still will not get over the fact that people mentioned being flamboyant or eccentric means you are absolutely gay, no discussion. If you are not flamboyant, you are absolutely straight. No discussion. I'm bewildered by the ironic bigotry.

Thats not what I said. I said you don't have to be straight passing. AKA hiding any flamboyant traits to be considered normal because people were bragging how no one could ever tell they were lgbtq without telling them. Some people have lisps, or more stereotypical "queer" mannerism who were never able to hide it growing up and they are not lesser because of it. No one said we needed them to act a certain way, you made that up.

There is nothing wrong with being more traditional with your mannerism but its not the ideal people need to try to be. They can just be themselves and your sexuality is a part of you, in addition to everything else.

[Hurlstone]

It is perhaps getting somewhat off-topic, but I have found that even within the LGBTQ+ community there are those who are bigoted against people who just happen to be more flamboyant or expressive of their sexuality. It is seen as giving into a harmful stereotype, rather then a persons nature or individual expression. Personally speaking the most biphobia I have experienced in my life has actually come from within the community, from those who think being bi/pan is not real or those who think bi people in opposite sex relationships should not be allowed in LGBTQ+ spaces. It is getting better nowadays, especially as younger generations embrace the idea that not everything can or should fit into a perfect box, but it just goes to show that even in communities that should be all about acceptance and solidarity, bigotry can form.

[Caurcas]

Laughing out loud.

[Padudu]

Man I don't miss the echo chamber of Twitter for these type of arguments