Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

[Floortank]

Agree with OP, but doubt it will happen. There aren't really any serious relationships anywhere in the game.

[Eloah]

Explicitly mentioning a character's queerness is not a "grandiose spectical [sic] to appease the masses." That statement verges on being homophobic. By contrast, queer coding is what actually exists specifically for the purpose of appeasing the masses; it is used to appease a minority audience while simultaneously not rocking the boat of a majority audience. When "that's the kind of representation you want" is said about queer coding what is really being said is "that's the kind of representation that makes the majority feel more comfortable so you should want it too."

To answer your question, "Why can't they be LGBT until proven otherwise?" While queer coding like that is not inherently negative on its own, when it is the only thing being offered and deviating from it is termed a grandiose spectacle then it is a problem.

These videos are very film-centric discussions of queer coding both its negative and positive aspects, but the ideas apply to all fictional media and are both generally pretty good analyses of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsO4...ellgren-Fozard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riKV...nel=RowanEllis

I'll start by saying I haven't watched those videos, yet.

That being said, stating that my statement verges on "homophobic" is severely misrepresenting the meaning. By grandiose statement I was talking about a biased representation, where you state a character is LGBT because they act a certain way. Like if a male character acted very flamboyant, but wasn't evil, cause apparently that's a thing, but most people would presume that character is gay based on stereotyping, which is a bad thing to do. How someone acts doesn't necessitate their sexuality. Having characters show signs of LGBT is fine because real life is on a spectrum. Someone could be homosexual but then enter into a heterosexual relationship and vice versa.

A good example of what I mean can be found in the anime Yuri on Ice. None of the characters have any perceived sexual preferences, and even early on the main character is considered heterosexual. But as I'm sure most people are aware he enters into a relationship with a man. That's why the anime was praised for it's realistic expression of LGBT individuals. They weren't just a stereotype played up to explicitly make people aware "hey look at me I'm LGBT". Even the one character in that anime who could be considered a stereotype is a subversion, or maybe a double subversion, because it's not part of his sexual preference but his personality as a skater.

Another good example is from the new She-ra reboot. The showrunners actively said they weren't sure if they would be able to portray the relationship they wanted for Adora and Catra, so they added in subtleties that could go either way. Hints at a possible future relationship or just a very deep friendship. This way they could have the characters just be themselves, and not anything that needed to be "altered" later on.

One good example, "turned" bad, can be found in the new Voltron. Shiro is gay, he was written that way from the start. And people were "okay" with that. What they weren't okay with was when things were "added" and then glossed over to show he was gay. Specifically the ending were he gets married to someone we never even see him interact with, that we as the viewer know, because other characters do interact with him. Those moments were superficial, just to show "yes he really is gay". Given the context of the show, the viewers didn't care about him being in a relationship. What they did care about was the promise of showing these relationships and not delivering.

So do you see what I'm trying to get at? Representation is good, no question about that. But it has to be realistic, it can't just be there because people "want it". People shouldn't see themselves in fictional characters because their sexualities align, but because of their personalities.

[Mhaeric]

So do you see what I'm trying to get at? Representation is good, no question about that. But it has to be realistic, it can't just be there because people "want it". People shouldn't see themselves in fictional characters because their sexualities align, but because of their personalities.

What you're trying to express here is what is known as tokenism. The thing is, however, characters can be LGBT without needing to be fleshed out or have good stories. An LGBT character's existence does not need to be contingent upon additional criteria to be considered worthy of explicit inclusion. That's different than tokenism which has more to do with the intent behind the inclusion. In fact, inclusion of people throughout a game world regardless of how fleshed out they are would work to avoid tokenism rather than being a form of it.

I'm no longer purchasing anything released or produced by Bethesda for unrelated reasons, but I will say that they did this thing correctly in Elder Scrolls Online. That game has lots NPCs whose LGBT status is made explicit and most of them aren't fleshed out in any real away at all although there are several that are

One other thimg, people absolutely should be able to see themselves in fictional characters just because their sexualities align. The parallel to this is that people shouldn't be expected to just be fine with only ever having characters that have differing sexualities than theirs. Sexuality isn't just some clinical trait that people have, it's just as much a part of their identity as their personality is and perfectly worthy of identifying with just on that basis alone.

[Eloah]

What you're trying to express here is what is known as tokenism. The thing is, however, characters can be LGBT without needing to be fleshed out or have good stories. An LGBT character's existence does not need to be contingent upon additional criteria to be considered worthy of explicit inclusion. That's different than tokenism which has more to do with the intent behind the inclusion. In fact, inclusion of people throughout a game world regardless of how fleshed out they are would work to avoid tokenism rather than being a form of it.

I'm no longer purchasing anything released or produced by Bethesda for unrelated reasons, but I will say that they did this thing correctly in Elder Scrolls Online. That game has lots NPCs whose LGBT status is made explicit and most of them aren't fleshed out in any real away at all although there are several that are

One other thimg, people absolutely should be able to see themselves in fictional characters just because their sexualities align. The parallel to this is that people shouldn't be expected to just be fine with only ever having characters that have differing sexualities than theirs. Sexuality isn't just some clinical trait that people have, it's just as much a part of their identity as their personality is and perfectly worthy of identifying with just on that basis alone.

I can't tell whether or not you understand what I'm saying. Your mentioning of tokenism does align with what I'm trying to say, but it's almost sounding like you think I'm for it, which I'm not. But I could be misinterpreting what you said.

That being said, that goes back to my original expression of why are all characters considered heterosexual until proven otherwise, unless they "act" a certain way. In real life you can't tell a person's sexual orientation just by looks alone, so why should a fictional world be any different.

Also, I'm not denying that someone's sexual orientation is important to their identity. But that shouldn't be the main reason you like a fictional character. Just like I how girls shouldn't like female characters just because they are girls. It's similar to getting into a relationship; looks are important, but if that's all you're focused on you're gonna be disappointed later on.

[Lily_Skye]

FF14 is a wonderful game. It's beautiful, the gameplay is fluid, the lore rich, and the graphics stunning, especially in the Azim Steppe.

Part of the reason why it's so wonderful is because it is possible to fully immerse yourself in this game. Characters all have a backstory, many NPCs are fleshed out, have their own personality, and you really feel like Eorzea is a place you can live in.

However, the lack of representation of LGBT characters in this game is frustrating for a billion-dollar video gaming company. While I applaud SE for allowing the Eternal Bonding to take place between two people of the same gender, there is not much else in this game that represents LGBT characters, other than a token gay couple in Upper La Noscea.

Some people will also bring up characters like Alphinaud (weird) or Haurchefant, and say they're "WOL-sexual". But you know that they're not actually designed as gay characters. They just happened to be perceived as LGBT because of the fandom.

Many other RPGs are already fully embracing the need to represent minorities in their game, because minority representation is an important issue that affects the psychological development of minority youth.

I hope to see Square Enix do more to represent LGBT characters in their game, because by doing so they'll let LGBT youth feel like they have a place in Eorzea and feel welcomed.

I know some people will think I'm joking, but I'm not. As a LGBT PoC myself, I am deeply invested in this issue.

no thanks .

[Theodric]

A character or person having eccentric or exaggerated mannerisms doesn't necessarily mean that they're gay, though. It strikes me as a bit of a harmful stereotype to assume that characters are gay just because they act that way.

[Gothicshark]

A character or person having eccentric or exaggerated mannerisms doesn't necessarily mean that they're gay, though. It strikes me as a bit of a harmful stereotype to assume that characters are gay just because they act that way.

You need to read up on Queer Coding.

https://youtu.be/GsO4fZYHQic

[Asari5]

maybe, just maybe, emet is straight-coded. he may look like gay to some people but for most straight people he just looks straight.
Most characters in this game dont show an explicit proof for their sexuality. So if you want to see straight people then they look straight for you. if you want to see gay people then alphinaud (or other characters) may look gay to you.
And if you want to see stereotypical gay people or people who are yelling in our face that they are gay to feel represented (because otherwise it would be too subtle to recognize) then you may only see straight people because most characters are neither straight nor gay (because its not shown)

i mean how should it be? should the numbers be like in our world? then we should applie a rule that any character without explicit proof is straight so that we can have a natural ratio between straight/gay. Or do you want to be overrepresented to the point that every second character is LGBTQ+? We cant count 'neutral' characters as straight nor gay. so we need a LOT of additional characters that represent every possible sexuality. After that we have gender and skincolour. Hmm.... but.... gender is a spectrum isnt it? Or thats what i heard. So we need a lot of characters for all the different people in that spectrum. And every sexuality needs someone in every colour.

I'm sorry it feels as if a bit of my comment isnt completely appropriate. but its somehow difficult for me to messure that whole thing because i dont understand why people care so much about such things in a computer game. On one side i couldnt care less what sexuality someone has (real Person or character in a game) because it doesnt affect me. Everyone should be what he wants to be and in a game it just should be a good story/character/romance/friendship whatever. On the other side.... all these minorities inside minorities (i firmly believe these loud people are just a small part of their 'faction') who are crying out loud to (what it feels like) making themselves more important becames more and more annoying.

[AngelCheese77]

All of you are falling for this blatant Titanmen troll post.

[Payadopa]

The fact that you people are discussing straight or whatever coding in a videogame about time travelling robots and dragons from outer space is very bizarre to me. lol