Summoner: An action or a dot?

[HeulGDarian]

I... have zero idea what you're trying to argue with that. Like... that different jobs do different things? Fun? That's really moot. It has nothing to do with the argument you made.

Why do you make me explain shit twice =.=
ok let me take everything from the start.
In your opinion this summoner isnt a summoner in line with the rest of the summoners.
Your comparison point is the times summoner was a standalone job, ff3, 5, 11, tactics , you then take the character based games , remove everything that isnt a summon and keep that as the pure summoner experience.
I disagree on you on this , cause your rule in order to work must exclude more than half the games, i instead take the fact that most of them give you more spells and tell you that summoner does more than just summon. The ff14 summoner fits inside that definition , and it is a pure summoner cause they took the spells they d usually give him ,in order to give summoner a magic repertoire of his very own, effectively splitting summoner from blm and whm which had been tied many times in the past. such as ff6 ff 9 , ff 4 , ff 3 (yes ill keep putting in sage cause he uses summons) and ff10.
You go ahead and say the same definition works on whm as well and here i tell you why it works on summoner and not whm. Summoner plays a bigger role than whm or blm, blm having an exception in ff9. In almost every game summons are different. as in espers from ff6 arent the same thing as eidolons in ff9 , summoning is something that gets rewritten depending the story. whm on the other hand doesnt have this restriction.

[MirronTulaxia]

Why do you make me explain shit twice =.=
ok let me take everything from the start.
In your opinion this summoner isnt a summoner in line with the rest of the summoners.
Your comparison point is the times summoner was a standalone job, ff3, 5, 11, tactics

Er... my comparison point is the history of the job in general, yes. Because even in games it's a hybrid it still has a clear representation.

And the list is a bit larger than that. You want to cite IV, IX, and X. I can cite... III, V, XI, T, TA, TA2, Dimensions, RK, likely some others. And the ones in IV, IX, and X still are clearly hybrid characters, but they do have a clear Summon versus other job aspect.

[HeulGDarian]

Er... my comparison point is the history of the job in general, yes. Because even in games it's a hybrid it still has a clear representation.

And the list is a bit larger than that. You want to cite IV, IX, and X. I can cite... III, V, XI, T, TA, TA2, Dimensions, RK, likely some others. And the ones in IV, IX, and X still are clearly hybrid characters, but they do have a clear Summon versus other job aspect.

Since people keep going i guess i should go ahead and correct this. Im not citing just 4, 9 and 10 , the reason i dont write all of them in every single post is cause ive already done it. It is safe to assume that im citing those as well. Also since you want to include the whole tactics line up of games , instead of taking all 3 as one world , i guess ill go ahead and put in the sequels as well.
My definition includes: FF3 , FF4, ff4 interlude, ff4 after years, FF6 , FF7, ff7 before crisis, ff7 crisis core , ff8. ff9 , ff10 , ff10-2, ff12, ff12 revenant wings , ff13 , ff14 , ff15 .
It is also a definition where the games youre citing can also fit comfortably because a a summoner does more than just summon includes the gameplay ff5 , ff11, ff T , ff TA and TA2 has. Heck in war of the lion you cant become a summoner unless you become a blm and time mage first and even then any spell you mastered you keep it.
And like i said before on the post that you ignored half of it even though i wrote w8 a bit for me to finish at the end, Summoner isnt something you can willy nilly put labels on, cause summons play a bigger role in the world and almost every time they are different.
In ff3 they are monsters
in ff4 the eidolons are creatures living in an alternate world called Feymarch
In ff5 some of them are dead creatures , like the pheonix who came out of a dragon or syldra
in ff6 Espers where humans and animals caught in the magic crossfire of the 3 gods
in ff7 summons are just monsters you call
in ff8 they are creatures of aether that can bond with a humans conscience and the more you use them the more you forget
in ff9 they are manifestations of the planets collective memories
in ff10 they are dreams of the fayth
in ff11 they are split to celestial avatars and terrestrial avatars , celestial ones are creatures sleeping in crystals while the later are creatures serving the goddess altana tasked to protect the mothercrystals
in FF12 they are creatures created by the gods that where then cast down , bound to the realm of the mist and then corrupted
in ff13 they are creatures sent to the l'cie when they are unwilling to finish their mission, if they beat them they will join them
in FF14 they are constructs made manifest from aether and peoples thoughts
in FF15 thay are split to astrals (gods) and messengers and you have to pass their test in order to be able to summon them
in tactics they are just monsters
in tactics advance there are distinction cause there are the totema the five crystal guardians each representing a different race
in tactics advance 2 back to being just monsters
in final fantasy type 0 they are war gods that are created by the dominion of rubrum with the power of the vermillion bird crystal. And most of them kill the user by draining its life force upon summoning.
in dissidia they are just crystals you break in the battlefield and then can equip them with a cap amount of summons.
This should show you that you cant simply have a summoner that just summons, cause summoning is a job created by the circumstances of the world surrounding it. This is why you cant just call that character hybrid and that character moot and this one doesnt matter because almost every summoner is distinctly different.
Imagine if yuna had to only summon , remember the sending? boom gone all those dead spirits are now monsters. What about ff15 who needs messengers or oracle all the gods are just coming down whenever i want them too, that is if i manage to get past their test, i wonder have they considered rock paper scissors. FF8 screw remembering stuff i can now stay there wondering with my imaginary friends , FF type 0 summon one then die. FF14 screw the lack of aether the world can die for all i care the biggest the better, and what are all those spells i learned along the way , i dont need them ill fight using carbuncle and the edge of my book.
Reducing all the complexity of their gameplay and lore that has being building for years to its the guy who simply summons a big thing and goes away , its literally insulting to the job.

[MirronTulaxia]

Snip.

Er... none of that has anything to do with the job, that's a discussion more in line with Primals. And in all of the games with Summoner as a job they manage to do that, except XIV.