Guide to fixing PLD

[SwordCoheir]

I have heard arguments that " well if you triple meld materia to armor you can sustain the stats needed to make war a viable endgame tank" to wich i answer "at what cost" not just in gil, but in stats you should be stacking to survive... at what point did we lose track of the true purpose of the tank? I agree this is partially SE's fault for giving incentives for "speed runs" but mainly the communities fault for being soo damn lazzy they went with what they saw as the obvious answer and have become soo blinded to the limits of the WAR tank. Soo much soo they are willing to sacrafice survivability to maintain DPS on a tank. This sacrafice is felt all around. Less REAL DPS to take the boss down faster, more healers simply to make it LOOK easy. And for what? other then ego I can not understand why people are soo head strong on WAR tank for content it realy is not designed for.

Why take the best at one thing, when this other job can do your job and more even if he's a slightly weaker tank. People don't necessarily want the best when they can have a job that's highly functional at multiple things. RDM was a prime example of this back in the ToAU days in FFXI, we knew it's capabilities far paled in comparison to other core jobs, but it never stopped it from becoming the wanted/required job for most content due to it's versatility and mp regeneration/efficiency, unless it became absolutely necessary to bring a WHM for higher cures.

Unfortunately there isn't a NEED for PLD on anything due to the small gap between PLD and WAR's defense, survivability, and current content, however WAR has such a high advantage over PLD DPS wise he gets the benefit of both worlds and can fall back into a focused DPS position if another tank is present. The name of the game is versatility, and WAR has it in more places than PLD does.

As far as threat/hate control argument goes it's irrelevant either way as long as whomever is tanking can hold hate over others in your group. It would be a problem if neither job could hold hate reliably, but so far we've yet to see an instance where that has happened.

[Evaddaragon]

Unfortunately there isn't a NEED for PLD on anything due to the small gap between PLD and WAR's defense, survivability, and current content, however WAR has such a high advantage over PLD DPS wise he gets the benefit of both worlds and can fall back into a focused DPS position if another tank is present. The name of the game is versatility, and WAR has it in more places than PLD does.

My thoughts exactly. As I've already stated before, PLD, for all intents and purposes, works exactly as what it's supposed to do. It's a fine tank that holds hate well with skills that work for that intent.

The real problem is that there is no content that justifies using it over a WAR. If PLD was indeed much better at damage mitigation, up to the point where you wouldn't need a second whm to make sure your tanks stays, removing that second white mage in favor of a dedicated DD (Hell, it could even be a WAR for all I care), THEN people would prefer using a PLD. That simply isn't the case right now. PLD DOES have better survivability over WAR on high level mobs right now, true, but the difference is far outweighed by the WAR's superior DPS and higher HP, not only leaving a better margin of error for slightly less capable healers, but also giving a slightly better overall DPS to the party.

Now, don't get me wrong. A skilled PLD tank can, with a skilled party, achieve anything a party with a WAR tank will. It simply will be tougher.

Now, I'll also agree that Holy Succor doesn't need to be more potent. Increasing the casting time is a far better idea. MP is NOT an issue, especially now that we know about the AF body's enhancement and the fact we can combine Outmaneuver and Divine Veil, although honestly, I think outmaneuver's MP regen trait could be boosted. Since most, if not all, parties will also have a bard, I'd dare say you simply suck at PLD if you can't manage your MP.

What is the most important thing to do, according to me, is to further increase block rate and block mitigation, AND most importantly, make magical attacks blockable. If you bring that to a level where people will say "If we have a PLD tank, we definitely don't need 2 WHMs in our party", then I'll believe we can achieve a balance.

[Duelle]

Heh, and here I was leveling GLA so that I could eventually become a PLD while I wait for SE to implement Fencer and RDM...

Why take the best at one thing, when this other job can do your job and more even if he's a slightly weaker tank. People don't necessarily want the best when they can have a job that's highly functional at multiple things. RDM was a prime example of this back in the ToAU days in FFXI, we knew it's capabilities far paled in comparison to other core jobs, but it never stopped it from becoming the wanted/required job for most content due to it's versatility and mp regeneration/efficiency, unless it became absolutely necessary to bring a WHM for higher cures.

While your statement is true, RDM is not a good example. RDM was mostly used for CC, heals and refresh. That's not what I would exactly call versatile. Still, WAR seems to be in that spot where it is in the middle of the road, and benefits from it. Would probably be better if both WAR and PLD could perform equally and let WAR have the DPS as a bonus, I think.

Unfortunately there isn't a NEED for PLD on anything due to the small gap between PLD and WAR's defense, survivability, and current content, however WAR has such a high advantage over PLD DPS wise he gets the benefit of both worlds and can fall back into a focused DPS position if another tank is present. The name of the game is versatility, and WAR has it in more places than PLD does.

We have to be REALLY careful when bringing this up, because SE might make the stupid decision of nerfing WAR instead of buffing PLD.

[Evaddaragon]

We have to be REALLY careful when bringing this up, because SE might make the stupid decision of nerfing WAR instead of buffing PLD.

It's probably too late to warn people about that, because there are nearly a dozen of similar threads about this, and I'm not even counting the ones in other forums.

[SwordCoheir]

We have to be REALLY careful when bringing this up, because SE might make the stupid decision of nerfing WAR instead of buffing PLD.

I can see WAR getting some adjustments like to Rampages healing effect where it won't stack with AoEs to make it a little less self reliant, but I doubt we'll see anything major happening to it because WAR is pretty much designed as the HP/DPS meatshield tank it was meant to be.

But part of PLD's design was it was supposed to get increased defense and defensive capabilities at the expense of lower HP, and at update we lost the HP and gained Hallowed Ground and no defensive difference. The adjustment to Divine Veil was nice and welcomed, but if you just stack abilities and stats there still isn't much really separating PLD and WAR defensively to make up that heafty chunk of DPS WAR has.

[Mijin]

On the positive side, PLD has great looking AF! At least SE did that right... unlike lolmnk

[Duelle]

I can see WAR getting some adjustments like to Rampages healing effect where it won't stack with AoEs to make it a little less self reliant, but I doubt we'll see anything major happening to it because WAR is pretty much designed as the HP/DPS meatshield tank it was meant to be.

But part of PLD's design was it was supposed to get increased defense and defensive capabilities at the expense of lower HP, and at update we lost the HP and gained Hallowed Ground and no defensive difference. The adjustment to Divine Veil was nice and welcomed, but if you just stack abilities and stats there still isn't much really separating PLD and WAR defensively to make up that heafty chunk of DPS WAR has.

I think the bigger question to ask is, which is the standard and which doesn't fit?

If PLD is the standard as far as what defense a tank should have and what utility it has built-in, then I would suggest something I brought up in the Fix MRD thread several months ago, and that was give MRD and WAR stances that scaled with different stats. An offensive/DPS stance that scales with STR and a defensive stance that scales with VIT so that you don't have both things on the same job while keeping them performing as well as they currently are.

If WAR is the standard, then yes there is no question that PLD needs fixes and buffs to catch up.

[Mijin]

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Hello! Producer/Director Yoshida here.

Even though we just released patch 1.22, I’d like to talk a bit about the plans for job/class balance adjustments that are to take place in patch 1.22b. With multiple jobs/classes and well as monsters and battle content in mind, some effects will need to be, as they say, "nerfed." I apologize.

Warrior and Marauder Adjustments
Our stance is to refrain from nerfing things as much as possible and we have performed and looked into adjustments up till now, but we have boosted warrior’s specs to a very high level. They’re at the point where they have stable enmity, high-damaging AoE attacks, and high defense, which is calling for a slight nerf. We apologize for this.

We will be making adjustments to Steel Cyclone, whose stats are currently too high.
Also, we will be enhancing the effect of Berserk and the attack power of Whirlwind in exchange for adjustments to the effect of Collusion.

Paladin and Gladiator
First, in order to raise the amount of damage they can output, we will be enhancing Goring Blade, Riot Blade, and Rage of Halone. Also, we will be getting rid of the max HP reduction when changing from gladiator to paladin and as a result will be making adjustments to increase their max HP. Additionally, we will be enhancing shield blocks. Besides these, if determined necessary for adjusting, there is the possibility that we adjust stats as well as enmity.

Dragoon and Lancer
We are currently testing adjustments for dragoon and lancer so that they are able to elicit higher performance than now for long primal battles, raid bosses, and other battles. Basically we will be increasing the amount of damage done for critical hits and making adjustments so that the job becomes closer to our planned image of the job.

*For specific adjustment information, once adjustments are finalized, we will be announcing the full details before the patch.

Paladin and Gladiator
First, in order to raise the amount of damage they can output, we will be enhancing Goring Blade, Riot Blade, and Rage of Halone. Also, we will be getting rid of the max HP reduction when changing from gladiator to paladin and as a result will be making adjustments to increase their max HP. Additionally, we will be enhancing shield blocks. Besides these, if determined necessary for adjusting, there is the possibility that we adjust stats as well as enmity.

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Increase PLDs curing, enmity, and sword dmg. ==> It becomes viable to have PLD to effectively tank with one healer, and they can actually hold hate like a WAR. ==> PLD stops sucking.

I should work for the development team; I seriously doubt they play their own game.

In a addition to the things I already mentioned, more blocking would be nice

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<- MFW baddies tell me I'm wrong.

[Aceofspades]

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<- MFW baddies tell me I'm wrong.

1) increasing DPS is more then likely to give PLD a fighting chance in a PVP situation (wich is still in the works) and not soo much to increase enmity, side effects would make for slightly faster speed runs with a PLD tank but not worth noting (pending on dps output adjustment)

2) more blocking was done with the first patch that gave devine veil a 100% block rate for 20 seconds. useing this ability alone should increasy any PLDs block rate by about 40% , increasing the effectiveness of the block is completly different, and although I agree it would be great, honestly block works on physical damage only, if you stoped waisting your time and gil on HP materia on used vit and def you wouldnt even notice the difference to begin with.

3) enmity adjustment is still yet to be decided ,Think they are gona see if the materia stat increase is enough to fix the (non) issue.

4) you are forgetting the entire role of any tank , much less a PLD. PLDs heal and deflect damage, soo far we have two ways to heal ourselves and both consist of mp usage and cast times wich include a chance for interuption. This is the only real issue with PLD. As a tank we are supposed to take hit, getting hit greatly increases the chance to have your spell cast interupted.... soo why would a tank who is built around self heals and damage deflection not have an instant cast heal ability or at least an ability or stance that alows ALL CASTS to be uninteruptable.

No , you actually ARE wrong. Increasing DPS is counter productive on a tank that gets no natural buffs or bonuses for doing damage. And Im sorry , PLD dose shit for damage and still holds hate as well as WAR on boss mobs. Can WAR eventually steal hate from the PLD , it sure can, but if your a dd and not a tank, why would you TRY to steal hate? The ONLY benifit from increasing DPS on a PLD would to only slightly increast the speed of a win. This can be acheived much faster through simply allowing PLD to safely replace a healer and allow for DD to take its place.

Let me explain why useing DPS as a source of enmity build is folly for a main tank.

1) forces tanks to focus on yet another stat that is supposed to be mainly for DPS ( accuracy, as well as str, or atk.)

2) reguardless of the amount of accuarcy on a tank, because boss mobs are soo much higher in level then ourselves , its more likely to miss , in this situation more misses = less enmity.... I know , rocket science right.

3) the more time a tank takes away from self buffs, simple manuvers and self heals to do combos and attacks the less servivable they are, simple instant vokes are more efficient for holding hate when your job is to stay alive. I understand some of the most powerfull enmity tools a PLD has are combos. personally, I belive this to be a mistake. Timing combos and attacks , worrying about TP and accuracy is stuff for the DPS not the tank.

[Brannigan]

No , you actually ARE wrong. Increasing DPS is counter productive on a tank that gets no natural buffs or bonuses for doing damage. And Im sorry , PLD dose shit for damage and still holds hate as well as WAR on boss mobs. Can WAR eventually steal hate from the PLD , it sure can, but if your a dd and not a tank, why would you TRY to steal hate? The ONLY benifit from increasing DPS on a PLD would to only slightly increast the speed of a win. This can be acheived much faster through simply allowing PLD to safely replace a healer and allow for DD to take its place.

Let me explain why useing DPS as a source of enmity build is folly for a main tank.

1) forces tanks to focus on yet another stat that is supposed to be mainly for DPS ( accuracy, as well as str, or atk.)

2) reguardless of the amount of accuarcy on a tank, because boss mobs are soo much higher in level then ourselves , its more likely to miss , in this situation more misses = less enmity.... I know , rocket science right.

3) the more time a tank takes away from self buffs, simple manuvers and self heals to do combos and attacks the less servivable they are, simple instant vokes are more efficient for holding hate when your job is to stay alive. I understand some of the most powerfull enmity tools a PLD has are combos. personally, I belive this to be a mistake. Timing combos and attacks , worrying about TP and accuracy is stuff for the DPS not the tank.

You can get like 96-98% hit rate on Garuda as warrior with minimal accuracy gear + bard song. Flame Sergeant Sash, NQ accuracy rings, and explorer's choker. Garuda seems to have pretty high frontal evasion too. Hitting your skills is an important part of being a tank in any game. Hit rate isn't a new thing to be concerned about, it's always been important. It's just that no one needed accuracy before because full party buff was bugged. Now, everyone needs some accuracy.

Doing combos doesn't really take away from using provoke, flash, aegis, etc. because all of those things have rather significant cooldowns. Worrying about accuracy is something that every single job does with the exception of possibly WHM. TP is a universal resource for all melee classes and as long as paladins wield swords and not wands they'll want to pay attention to it.