Guide to fixing PLD

[Dzian]

i'll admit i forgot about cover but so far i've not found much use for it. it typically requires someone to stand in harms way to get covered. either i dont notice it or the mp regen doesnt proc when your outside 8 yalms.

but i'd still consider the war in aces challenge thing to have the blinky red box more than the paladin. does cover generate emnity? i cant find anything that says yes.

Again i love the paladin class. but i can still tank more effectively on a war with a lot less effort.
every dd i play with says they can be more offensive with a warrior. no matter who tries to pld tank. basically saying "oh a pld tank i better hold back a little"

and imo thats the reason why nearly everyone i see be it people i know or people i dont use warriors. more effective with less effort

[Evaddaragon]

i'll admit i forgot about cover but so far i've not found much use for it. it typically requires someone to stand in harms way to get covered. either i dont notice it or the mp regen doesnt proc when your outside 8 yalms.

but i'd still consider the war in aces challenge thing to have the blinky red box more than the paladin. does cover generate emnity? i cant find anything that says yes.

Again i love the paladin class. but i can still tank more effectively on a war with a lot less effort.
every dd i play with says they can be more offensive with a warrior. no matter who tries to pld tank. basically saying "oh a pld tank i better hold back a little"

and imo thats the reason why nearly everyone i see be it people i know or people i dont use warriors. more effective with less effort

Well as far as the MP regen effect goes, I don't need to have my target within 8 yalms from me for it to work. I only need to be able to actually activate the ability. It even works if I take damage when I had hate in the first place. Oh well.

Oh yeah, that discussion is about if I'd be in a situation where I'm competing for hate with a WAR on the same target. My points was simply to state that the mere fact the WAR takes hate from me doesn't prevent me from using my full set of abilities.

Also, if I was in said competition with the WAR, let me tell you I'd never, ever let, the WAR collusion me on Spirits Within. It's easy enough to notice the WAR activated the ability and simply use a second Phalanx, thus preventing the WAR from stealing my enmity spike, then use Spirits Within. It's not like 250 TP is hard to come by, especially when you can use outmaneuver and Divine Veil to give yourself a nice TP boost.

Cover doesn't generate enmity, but it forces shift the hate on you for the duration of the effect, which, if I recall, can be up 25%. Since the challenge is "having the blinking red box more often than the other", the WAR starts with a 25% handicap unless the PLD forgets to actually use Cover.

So, as I said, I wouldn't go as far as saying PLD can't be as effective, but I'll admit it's probably easier to spam Steel Cyclone for damage/hate than it is to spam more abilities on PLD. However, Ace's challenge isn't about easy, it's about holding hate.

Still, that challenge has no practical use but to boost said participant's respective egos. I'd rather find ways to have PLD and WAR work together than absolutely trying to have them compete, but that's just me I guess.

[Alerith]

i'll admit i forgot about cover but so far i've not found much use for it. it typically requires someone to stand in harms way to get covered. either i dont notice it or the mp regen doesnt proc when your outside 8 yalms.

The MP regen doesn't require your covered target to be near you, or to even have enmity. The game checks two things: Did the PLD take damage? (from any source) and Is Cover active? If both these are true, then the effect of cover will return MP.

but i'd still consider the war in aces challenge thing to have the blinky red box more than the paladin. does cover generate emnity? i cant find anything that says yes.

It doesn't generate actual enmity. What it does is that as long as your covered target is within the 8 yalm distance, it FORCES a hate shift that has the mob turn on you when it attacks and casts.

[Daniel_Fury]

i'll admit i forgot about cover but so far i've not found much use for it. it typically requires someone to stand in harms way to get covered. either i dont notice it or the mp regen doesnt proc when your outside 8 yalms.

but i'd still consider the war in aces challenge thing to have the blinky red box more than the paladin. does cover generate emnity? i cant find anything that says yes.

Again i love the paladin class. but i can still tank more effectively on a war with a lot less effort.
every dd i play with says they can be more offensive with a warrior. no matter who tries to pld tank. basically saying "oh a pld tank i better hold back a little"

and imo thats the reason why nearly everyone i see be it people i know or people i dont use warriors. more effective with less effort

lol.
Spam holy succor on the war and they lose hate faster than you think

[Reynhart]

There's something that bothers me in all these PLD thread.
Every now and then, a pro-WAR come and say "Blah blah you can't beat me with hate blah blah Provoke, Collusion and such"

My question is: If the PLD is supposed to be the tank, why would you EVER use Provoke or Collusions on the PLD ?
We ask the PLD to keep hate over mages or DD, not over DD who would screw everything just to show they can have better enmity generation...

Can a PLD keep hate over DPS only actions ? Yes
Can a PLD keep hate over healing actions ? Yes
Can a PLD keep hate over nuking actions ? Yes

Now for a PLD to be more useful than WAR in most situations, it have to be far better at staying alive (Not the dance, mind you)
- Better damage mitigation
- Better curing capacities so it can stay alive for longer fights without a dedicated healer

We could have different setups:
WAR+WHM+WHM+5 other jobs. That is the main setup for the boss fights, and it can still be useful when you don't have a PLD in the group.
PLD+WHM+6 others jobs. This is a more complex setup, and requires people who can really manage MPs and cooldowns. Whitout the need for a second healer, we can stack one more DD, to compensante for the weaker DPS of the PLD.

[Mijin]

I saw this PLD on my server stacking DEF materia, and eating DEF food the other day. I had a good laugh. I'll give you a clue who it was, he is one of the ones posting here about how great he is. XD XD

[Aceofspades]

Yes PLD needs to land its attacks, no acc shouldnt be on the priority list. top 5 should always be def>vit>mind>block>hp, sounds more like reaching for excuses to justify replacing tank stats for dps stats.

[kro]

Yes PLD needs to land its attacks, no acc shouldnt be on the priority list. top 5 should always be def>vit>mind>block>hp, sounds more like reaching for excuses to justify replacing tank stats for dps stats.

Right now, it's more like Enmity = HP = Acc >>> MND > everything else.

When PLD got Atonement in FFXI, managing hate became all about having high accuracy and haste gear to reduce cooldowns and get to 100 TP asap.

Similarly, because Flat Blade has such a powerful enmity bonus and low cooldown, I feel like the optimal method of holding hate on PLD will be getting that 1000 TP to spam the Flat Blade combo as much possible in between your other combos and ability cooldowns. You should never be in a situation where you have more TP than you know what to do with. To maximize TP gain, you will need Accuracy.

Turtle-style tank has never been viable in an efficient party. This game puts too much emphasis on landing combos while defensive stats have minimal returns. The only time a full on defensive build is useful is when you're just running through darkhold or strongholds and training everything.

If you ever try to tank Garuda on PLD without accuracy gear, you will see first-hand just how crippling missing all your combos can be.

[Aceofspades]

Right now, it's more like Enmity = HP = Acc >>> MND > everything else.

When PLD got Atonement in FFXI, managing hate became all about having high accuracy and haste gear to reduce cooldowns and get to 100 TP asap.

Similarly, because Flat Blade has such a powerful enmity bonus and low cooldown, I feel like the optimal method of holding hate on PLD will be getting that 1000 TP to spam the Flat Blade combo as much possible in between your other combos and ability cooldowns. You should never be in a situation where you have more TP than you know what to do with. To maximize TP gain, you will need Accuracy.

Turtle-style tank has never been viable in an efficient party. This game puts too much emphasis on landing combos while defensive stats have minimal returns. The only time a full on defensive build is useful is when you're just running through darkhold or strongholds and training everything.

If you ever try to tank Garuda on PLD without accuracy gear, you will see first-hand just how crippling missing all your combos can be.

hmm Garuda seemed more magic resistant then actuall physical damage. Thus the reason I wana try with 6 war in a DPS set up. as far as acuracy and tp gose, I dont have any ACC gear at all, never have an issue landing combos in a timely manner or gaining enough TP do soo for that matter. And personaly I never stack HP over anything , it just dosent make any sense. Here people complain about block rate an how effective it isn't yet they stack HP, you realize, if you stack def/vit , even if you did block, you wouldnt notice much a differance. I use devine veil for two reasons, combo with out manuver or stone skin. As far as magical damage gose, if my rampart/sentinel/and or stone skin is not up in time, then my whm may actually be needed for more then just regen / buffs or simple cures. Only tank that NEEDs accuracy is WAR and even they do well with low acc gear.