Garlemald and Azys Lla

[YianKutku]

I wasn't aware the Immortal Flames summoner squad was active there... there was the SMN 70 quest up there but there's hardly a Flames presence...

... but no. The Eorzean Alliance has no interest in doing anything on Azys Lla, other than excavating choice pieces of Allagan technology (apparently). Being filled with defunct Allagan facilities nobody can really get into, populated primarily by Allagan horrors, and possessed of few if any natural resources, nobody really can claim dominion over Azys Lla and nobody really has much reason to. Civilizing it would be a massive undertaking costing far more than it's really worth. The only thing of value up there is Allagan technology, which the Garleans (or at least van Hydrus) have deemed useless for their purposes. The Eorzeans doing anything up there at all was a pretty big shock in the Werlyt questline.

Also a member of the First Brood who has been wallowing in self-pity for the past five thousand years or so, albeit while being surrounded by the reminders of why she's up there in the first place.

I remember some speculation that Tiamat might not even care if some unscrupulous sorts decided to do a Thordan and take her eyes. Personally I don't actually know if she's that far gone, but she seems not to be concerned about her own well-being to the point where I can't say it's impossible.

[Vyrerus]

I wasn't aware the Immortal Flames summoner squad was active there... there was the SMN 70 quest up there but there's hardly a Flames presence...

... but no. The Eorzean Alliance has no interest in doing anything on Azys Lla, other than excavating choice pieces of Allagan technology (apparently). Being filled with defunct Allagan facilities nobody can really get into, populated primarily by Allagan horrors, and possessed of few if any natural resources, nobody really can claim dominion over Azys Lla and nobody really has much reason to. Civilizing it would be a massive undertaking costing far more than it's really worth. The only thing of value up there is Allagan technology, which the Garleans (or at least van Hydrus) have deemed useless for their purposes. The Eorzeans doing anything up there at all was a pretty big shock in the Werlyt questline.

I mean, there's Adamantite. That's got value in metallurgy. There's a metric fuck ton of crystals... and as I remember it, it wasn't that the Garleans deemed everything up there useless, just the primal containment bays. Also keep in mind that, within the idea of the time bubble, most of the facilities were warded up by Urianger to keep the Garleans stymied. There's obviously the issue that they have a plethora of dropships, and the technical know how to get into any of the unwarded facilities. They just didn't, for some inexplicable reason. The Garleans on the Gration should have been the first force inside of the Fractal Continuum. It's much like the plot hole where Thordan, seeking power overwhelming for world domination, didn't fly over to the dragon quadrant and get two more eyes before heading into the ARF, despite having ample time and power to do so.

[LineageRazor]

I mean, there's Adamantite. That's got value in metallurgy. There's a metric fuck ton of crystals... and as I remember it, it wasn't that the Garleans deemed everything up there useless, just the primal containment bays. Also keep in mind that, within the idea of the time bubble, most of the facilities were warded up by Urianger to keep the Garleans stymied. There's obviously the issue that they have a plethora of dropships, and the technical know how to get into any of the unwarded facilities. They just didn't, for some inexplicable reason. The Garleans on the Gration should have been the first force inside of the Fractal Continuum. It's much like the plot hole where Thordan, seeking power overwhelming for world domination, didn't fly over to the dragon quadrant and get two more eyes before heading into the ARF, despite having ample time and power to do so.

Well, in answer to that last, it's possible that the bindings keeping Tiamat contained are just as effective at keeping potential rescuers AWAY. Perhaps obtaining her eyes is not as easy a task as you speculate - at the very least, not worth the effort, in comparison to the power he was about to get from the Triad. The eyes he had were already enough for that purpose. Also, considering what happened to Estinien, it's possible that there's a risk in trying to wield the power of too many eyes at once; becoming a Primal allowed Thordan to get away with handling two, but who's to say what four could do? The fact that Ishgard HAD two eyes, but only ever fielded one, might be an indicator that the papacy has known since the beginning that two at once is just too much...

[Vyrerus]

Well, in answer to that last, it's possible that the bindings keeping Tiamat contained are just as effective at keeping potential rescuers AWAY. Perhaps obtaining her eyes is not as easy a task as you speculate - at the very least, not worth the effort, in comparison to the power he was about to get from the Triad. The eyes he had were already enough for that purpose. Also, considering what happened to Estinien, it's possible that there's a risk in trying to wield the power of too many eyes at once; becoming a Primal allowed Thordan to get away with handling two, but who's to say what four could do? The fact that Ishgard HAD two eyes, but only ever fielded one, might be an indicator that the papacy has known since the beginning that two at once is just too much...

Nidhogg is the strongest dragon of the First Brood, and he was defeated by non-primal Elezen who'd gained the power of Ratatoskr's eyes. Thordan at the time only had 1 of Nidhogg's eyes and only ever had the one, since Estinien and the WoL had the other. With that and the entire Heavensward, coupled with the fact that Tiamat is despondent and restrained... yeah it would have been really really REALLY easy for him to take her eyes. We're told she could escape if she wanted, but we're not told how much of an effort she'd have to exert to break her bonds. Point is, they're still a hindrance.

It's not a matter of sheer amount of dragon eyes that lead to Estinien's possession. It was the fact that they were both Nidhogg's eyes, and he had spent most of his adult life entangled with Nidhogg's mind. Quite clearly, when we beat the Aery, he holds Hraesvelgr's eye and Nidhogg's eye, and nothing bad happens to him.

Also now I'm imagining a Thordan with Ascalon, sword with the eye in the hilt. Then a shield with Tiamat's eyes. That'd be ballin'

[TheMightyMollusk]

No one can devote the resources needed to claim Azys Lla while the war is still ongoing. It's technically in Eorzean territory, but nobody really has any investment in it beyond keeping the other side out.

[VictorTheed]

I thought it was cool how they tied Azys Lla and The House of Crooked Coin in Azim Steppe together, I wish they'd do more of those kinda things in 14.

My guess is those garlean troops are gonna be stuck there forever no matter what the direction of the story goes, like the ones in Mor Shona, East Shroud and Eastern La Noscea.

[Morningstar1337]

I thought it was cool how they tied Azys Lla and The House of Crooked Coin in Azim Steppe together, I wish they'd do more of those kinda things in 14.

Mind clarifying on how those two are tied?

[JeanneOrnitier]

Mind clarifying on how those two are tied?

Wasn't it that the House of the Crooked Coin was the device used to lift Azys Lla out of the ground in what would become the Burn? This was in 4.4 or 4.5, when we went there with Y'shtola.

[Cilia]

Wasn't it that the House of the Crooked Coin was the device used to lift Azys Lla out of the ground in what would become the Burn? This was in 4.4 or 4.5, when we went there with Y'shtola.

More accurately it was the device used to cut off aetherial circulation to the Burn so the land could be excavated and made into what we now know as Azys Lla.

As for Azys Lla itself... it's pretty much uninhabitable. There are few trustworthy sources of food and no known sources of potable water. It's a wasteland for most intents and purposes, valuable only for the Allagan crap up there. Nothing else is worth the effort of exploring the place, and it's completely not worth civilizing it.

Are the Imperials unable to get to anything due to Scion wards / time bubble? Maybe. Does it make much sense for Thordan to overlook Tiamat as a power source and rush to the Triad? Not really. There are all sorts of logical nitpicks that can be made, though; at the end of the day the Garleans don't have the resources to civilize the territory and the Eorzeans have no interest in doing so. (The Garleans might not want to either.)

So back to the original point... no, I'm pretty sure the VIth Legion can't really lay a claim to Azys Lla given they don't have the resources to civilize it. The Eorzeans don't want to.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Re; Thordan and Tiamat, bear in mind that he knew the Empire and the WoL were on his tail, and didn't know if that giant dragon over there (who, it should be noted, he had no reason at all to know about beforehand; Tiamat had no involvement in the Dragonsong War, and has been chained up there since the Allagans still ruled most of the world) would be hostile. Given the trouble that Nidhogg has given Ishgard with one eye for the last thousand years, attacking another giant dragon who still had both eyes while two hostile forces were right behind him would be completely idiotic. He probably figured he could come back for them later, but then we kill him.