Bot's on Market Board...? Really?

[Sqwall]

Except bots HAVE infested the gathering/crafting MBs and housing as well. Theres multiple threads and many many accounts. I'd even post screencaps if it wasn't 'naming and shaming' of how bots swarm on nodes for example, and I'm sure the 9+ bots that are on 24/7 (and those are the ones I know of) just never sell those mats (oh wait, within day 2 of the last patch there were some people selling stacks of 99 of the new mats, and not one stack but like 20-30 of them of timed node stuff and aethersand). The bots exist and have for a long while (the same ones no less) acting like they don't is being willfully ignorant.

This right here is WHY FFXI opted to not post the prices of items on the AH. You had to bid for an item, starting low and working your way up. This actually did put RMT's at a disadvantage since they could not destroy a market since they didn't know the price to post items at. More often then not the RMT's would put prices extremely high while normal minded players would post thing at REASONABLE prices. The bot's couldn't compete with this and were forced to lower prices.

FFXIV this could get WAY worse then it did in FFXI if not kept in check as I feel FFXIV is way more vulnerable due to the popularity and population it has.

[Nixxe]

Except bots HAVE infested the gathering/crafting MBs and housing as well. Theres multiple threads and many many accounts. I'd even post screencaps if it wasn't 'naming and shaming' of how bots swarm on nodes for example, and I'm sure the 9+ bots that are on 24/7 (and those are the ones I know of) just never sell those mats (oh wait, within day 2 of the last patch there were some people selling stacks of 99 of the new mats, and not one stack but like 20-30 of them of timed node stuff and aethersand). The bots exist and have for a long while (the same ones no less) acting like they don't is being willfully ignorant.

I never said anything about gathering bots. Gathering bots are different than market board bots though.

Likewise, housing is really just an automated script because the random timer is such a terrible game mechanic. The players who do that for housing probably aren't botting anything else.

So no, I'm not being "willfully ignorant," you're just too busy being unnecessarily aggressive to actually make sure you understand what I said.

[NamidaTekika]

I never said anything about gathering bots. Gathering bots are different than market board bots though.

Likewise, housing is really just an automated script because the random timer is such a terrible game mechanic. The players who do that for housing probably aren't botting anything else.

So no, I'm not being "willfully ignorant," you're just too busy being unnecessarily aggressive to actually make sure you understand what I said.

Market bots are also extremely active , multiple threads with multiple pages and people who have observed the interval changed. Where do you think the market bots are supplied from? They aren't spending their gil. It all flows into the RMT circuit one way or another.

To not see it is to not want to see it.

[Seaverin]

I agree and there's a lot of players buying gils from RMTs, in my server the new DOH gear went from 2m on release to a mere 200-300k in a span of 3-4 days and you wonder why that happens? I"ll tell you why, SE made crafting too accessible and easy, streamers leaching off on "how to craft/earn gils" guides thinking their audience is only legit non-RMT players; when they dont understand that some of their viewers can be RMTs themselves. The MB have been saturated (at least in my server) to a point that crafting is becoming worthless and "rare" items loses its value too quickly upon release dates. SE need to make crafting harder and make items "rare", truly a "rare" items. As of now its too accessible, no sense of achievement in crafting the new stuff coz there's no point if everyone has it.

[Nixxe]

Market bots are also extremely active , multiple threads with multiple pages and people who have observed the interval changed. Where do you think the market bots are supplied from? They aren't spending their gil. It all flows into the RMT circuit one way or another.

To not see it is to not want to see it.

What does it matter how many threads there are? As I've said, and as I say almost every time it comes up in this forum, I simply don't see good evidence that it's as prevalent as certain doomsayers claim. What I repeatedly see in such threads are that players frustrated with a lack of success simply accuse other players of botting. Yet if you can make the argument that "Well, they're on x hours a day, so they must be botting," or "They undercut x number of times per hour, so they must be botting," how could you know that except by spending that much time online or checking the market board that often yourself and thus demonstrating it's within the realm of player behavior after all?

And to be clear, I am not saying it is impossible that there are market board bots out there. I am saying I do not trust the judgment of randos on the forums whatsoever when they promise me we're in the middle of the abotcalypse, especially when they provide no proof in favor of just asserting that it's common knowledge.

[MilitaryVet123]

What does it matter how many threads there are? As I've said, and as I say almost every time it comes up in this forum, I simply don't see good evidence that it's as prevalent as certain doomsayers claim. What I repeatedly see in such threads are that players frustrated with a lack of success simply accuse other players of botting. Yet if you can make the argument that "Well, they're on x hours a day, so they must be botting," or "They undercut x number of times per hour, so they must be botting," how could you know that except by spending that much time online or checking the market board that often yourself and thus demonstrating it's within the realm of player behavior after all?

And to be clear, I am not saying it is impossible that there are market board bots out there. I am saying I do not trust the judgment of randos on the forums whatsoever when they promise me we're in the middle of the abotcalypse, especially when they provide no proof in favor of just asserting that it's common knowledge.

Go to your market board and look at Neo-Ishgardian or Aesthete's gear, and refresh the market board every 5 minutes for 24 hours and look at the prices. You'll see your evidence.

[Nixxe]

Go to your market board and look at Neo-Ishgardian or Aesthete's gear, and refresh the market board every 5 minutes for 24 hours and look at the prices. You'll see your evidence.

In doing so I would necessarily be proving that is a thing actual people sitting at their keyboards do and thus it would not prove that it is a bot.

[Sqwall]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-%28Aug.-27%29

Here is your evidence right here. This is just Aug 20-27! It is a problem and an increasing one. SE is taking steps to counter this and it clearly informs everyone to report the MB botting, farming, cheating, use of third party tools if suspicious. Let SE handle the investigation portion, and everyone should do their part to report.

If you have nothing to hide SE won't find anything. It appears they aren't going out of their way to spear head the issue, like I said before, don't have the man power or resources to handle it on their own volition. They need our help reporting!

Keep this garbage out of this game.

[MilitaryVet123]

In doing so I would necessarily be proving that is a thing actual people sitting at their keyboards do and thus it would not prove that it is a bot.

Or you can come to the far likelier and coherent conclusion that it is in fact bots.

[Nixxe]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-%28Aug.-27%29

Here is your evidence right here. This is just Aug 20-27! It is a problem and an increasing one. SE is taking steps to counter this and it clearly informs everyone to report the MB botting, farming, cheating, use of third party tools if suspicious. Let SE handle the investigation portion, and everyone should do their part to report.

If you have nothing to hide SE won't find anything. It appears they aren't going out of their way to spear head the issue, like I said before, don't have the man power or resources to handle it on their own volition. They need our help reporting!

Keep this garbage out of this game.

That information is not detailed enough. It shows 41 accounts were suspended or terminated for botting. An unspecified number of RMT accounts were likewise actioned for botting, but were lumped in with all RMT related activity, which presumably includes people who buy gil and such, not just people botting. Finally, it does not address MB botting specifically, which is the only point of contention. As for whether or not it's an increasing problem, if that's the data you want to go with, then...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

The trendlines both have a negative slope. Even if I were to clean up the data so that it didn't hold the few weeks where SE did almost nothing, likely due to COVID-19, it's unlikely it would actually have a positive slope. It would likely be flat at best. In the case of the RMT advertising graph, the slope is likely negative due to a spike last fall, but it would still likely be flat even if you excluded that range. Of course the data still isn't detailed enough to tell us if botting itself is a greater or lesser problem, but this is a year of data that shows there isn't a whole lot of change and that, if anything, it has maybe gotten a tad better.

In any case, I've definitely observed and reported gathering bots, but unlike MB bots, you can easily tell if someone is botting (or at least exploiting) while gathering because their character will do stuff that should be impossible, such as cut through terrain. But MB bots? Like there was a guy on Balmung who used to be regularly accused of botting the MB and maybe he did, but whenever I went and competed in his markets, I could easily take them over and shut him out of sales. What kind of bot is less effective than a human at maintaining their MB listings? A useless one not worth not worth breaking down into hysterics over.

Or you can come to the far likelier and coherent conclusion that it is in fact bots.

Since I'm guessing you haven't even done as much as you told me to do, what exactly is your evidence? A handful of random data samples not systematically collected combined with your frustration from not being as successful of a seller as you wish?