Bot's on Market Board...? Really?

[kiagenwa]

Yesterday I found a bot party as I was doing my botanist things. They just don't move like normal people... They warp around as soon as a monster appear.
Too bad I didn't know how to report them. And no, it's not gonna be easy remembering aknsdbrvw-like names to put in the form.
I think it's a good strategy for them using random names. It's gonna be hard for the reporter.

[MilkieTea]

Yesterday I found a bot party as I was doing my botanist things. They just don't move like normal people... They warp around as soon as a monster appear.
Too bad I didn't know how to report them. And no, it's not gonna be easy remembering aknsdbrvw-like names to put in the form.
I think it's a good strategy for them using random names. It's gonna be hard for the reporter.

Isend them tells or use emotes on them. This way I have their names if I want to report.

[kiagenwa]

Ah... I forgot about that.
Will do that next time seeing them.

[Sqwall]

Looks like the next 5.5 patch is addressing collision detection. Translation is a little loose, but this partially to address the player or bot position between the client and the server.

This has been normal for quite a while, but is subject to the original 1.0 code of x,y,z coordinates being constantly reported.

Bot's get around this by running a third party software that alters the incoming and outgoing packets by offsetting their x,y,z cords. So this allows them to be undetected.

Now with that out of the way. Improved collision detection will be changed to feedback of a character/player/bot interacting with the world. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING this means SE is monitoring the environment and how it interacts with the client positions.

When you think of a three dimensional space you can have it empty or full of something. Water for instance is an asset, once you break the plane you are now in water, swimming animation, refraction filter added, you can basically fly in the area. You have this transition when you go below the surface and the assets are "loaded" and your client is altered to be "underwater".

Improved collision detection would work the same way if I think this is how I would program this. You fall below the world..."loading" loading would take place. Your client is now in "floating" state. This would be a red flag to the server as saying.... "floating" can not take place in this area.....you are breaking the rules.

Water = "swim" mode if/then statement = water surface -2meters = true
Flying = "mount" mode if/then statement = ether currents unlocked = true
Floating = "bot" mode if/then statement = floor plane broken = true

This is kind of genius and would mean if you fall/through the plane of land, wall, edge, surface you're client would be in an altered state.

Same could go for run speed, mount speed as well.

To Fast = "cheater" mode if/then statement = beyond acceptable movement speed (accounting for all values allowed on mount/walk/run/party bonuses)

I would really like to see this.

Dispatch = "bot" mode if/then statement = amount of material farmed in zone abnormally high (undisclosed amount of mats). Flag player. Case statement = list retainers on account /follow sales and report to data export.

Data includes:
Time played
Time to Max (80)
Jobs maxed
level of chat activity
friends list
mog mail history
Gil transactions

Prolly never happen, but I would like to see that data vs. some of the known bot's on my server to see how it stacks up.

[Neddy08]

I have an issue with a bot inside the MB it's unfair to those people bargaining on the market, but this bot constantly changes prices by 1 cent lower of the original price I tested it out the item name Aesthete's Doublet of Gathering was going over 200000 Gil and I changed the price of 75000 the bot match my 75000 Gil .That can't be a human being changing those prices that's ridiculous and a normal human being will know better not to sell it at that price it's definitely a bot. There is proof of me manipulating the bot. Sorry it's a long video but you can skip a couple of minutes to see what happens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEg5eCb8mhY

I reported them to the GM but it's been two weeks and nothing has been done but my guess is that SE knows about this problem but the gm's not wasting their time because you get rid of one cockroach another one come back

[KapraGoatmog]

As someone who crafts end-game gear, mainly Aesthete and Exarch, I can verify that on numerous occasions that I have severely undercut others selling the same thing. Something that takes less than 5 minutes to make and is necessary for players hoping to go further than what they can manage to scrounge from repeated clears of dungeons or buying with white scrip, should not cost 100k+. Holding players back, especially ones who don't feel comfortable with begging others for a handout, by charging stupidly high prices for gear is toxic as hell. Naturally, the only way to combat price gouging on the MB is to mass produce HQ products and sell them for far less than the standard price. The worst part is that crafters who engage is toxic behavior like this will lie to admin about the presence of bots to try and get their competition removed. Talk about greed.

[Shialan]

100-150k for one exarchic gear item is not holding players back. You can make this daily through roulette.

[Liam_Harper]

Logic doesn't apply to people who can level multiple crafters and gatherers to 80, gear them, meld them, acquire food, gather from timed nodes, scrip farm for sublimes, start craft and make Exarchic items in under 5 minutes total. I wish I knew their secret.

Nor does logic apply to people who need a full Exarchic set the moment they hit 80 because stepping foot into any sort of content and farming gear in what is possibly the least grindy MMO out there to obtain gear, is somehow too much work.

[Jojoya]

Something that takes less than 5 minutes to make and is necessary for players hoping to go further than what they can manage to scrounge from repeated clears of dungeons or buying with white scrip, should not cost 100k+.

You didn't walk into a guild, unlock the needed class then make the item 5 minutes later. There was still considerable effort to level, gear, meld, etc. before you could attempt to craft the item.

Don't undersell the value of the personal effort you put in to get the to the point you're able to craft an item.

And of course it should cost 100k+ when you're comparing to the value of the effort the other player would have to put into farming the equivalent items in the intended gear progression path. The value set needs to be high enough for the player to weigh the decision whether they are better off buying or doing the content. Buying off the MB should never be seen as the cheaper option.

Nor does logic apply to people who need a full Exarchic set the moment they hit 80 because stepping foot into any sort of content and farming gear in what is possibly the least grindy MMO out there to obtain gear, is somehow too much work.

I'd stretch your second point a bit and say logic doesn't apply to the marketboard in general because it's just a convenience system with optional items of subjective value. Those who provide the convenience are going to value their time differently based on their own needs and wants.

The problem is the bots out there that take that convenience to a whole new level, upsetting the markets for those who can't AFK to do other things while crafts continue to spit out.

[Sqwall]

Logic doesn't apply to people who can level multiple crafters and gatherers to 80, gear them, meld them, acquire food, gather from timed nodes, scrip farm for sublimes, start craft and make Exarchic items in under 5 minutes total. I wish I knew their secret.

Nor does logic apply to people who need a full Exarchic set the moment they hit 80 because stepping foot into any sort of content and farming gear in what is possibly the least grindy MMO out there to obtain gear, is somehow too much work.

When you have infinite GIL....you don't farm....you buy VAST amounts of mats. I do this with sublime solution to keep me away from the time sink of collectibles. Before I had my wealth...yeah I would scrip all day for maybe a little sand or sublimes. Now those days are behind me where I just buy sand. I crafted my whole Ashesthes (spelling) gear and Penta melded it. They only way I got ahead was I had a FC mate make my HQ Facet crafting. I purchased ALL the mats needed and had my FC mate craft it. Cost me around 8 mil (1 million gil tip for their time), and I was off to the races. I turned that 8mil investment into 20 mil in about a month.

Then I spent 9 million on Materia. 1. to horde 2. to pentameld my new gear.

Then I worked on my gathering set, but I made my own HQ Facet gathering set. Didn't meld that. This fueled my crafting even further as I was able to get HQ mats for free.

Eventually my crafting didn't need HQ mats anymore and just sold all my HQ mats for free gil. I was making around 4-5 mil per week, then 8, then 10.

Now. I don't own an ingame house. Nor do I want to. I have postioned myself to gather less....and less....and less. As I buy more...and more...and more mats to feed my crafting.

This is where I hold the idea up that if SE fixes gathering then the bots will simply vanish. Here's how...Make gathering RNG style like collectibles is now. Gathering Thunder Rocks for ethereal reduction is simple, yet requires actual thought process. Not to mention you need GP to actually interact with the node. I'm not saying duplicate the collectible gathering completely, but make it along those lines rather then just using "Pick Clean" which guarantees HIGH volumes of mats while you don't even need to use any GP to gather also.

If SE fixes gathering....they subsequently fix these crafting bots from having they're gathering bots go out and just auto-farm an areas node over and over until their inventory is full of 1 type of mat. It's a lot harder to have a bot go out and interact with RNG, while also being forced to use GP.

Once the gathering markets are more stable and high volumes are down to normal amounts, then crafting will follow suit. It will take time for the crafting market to stabilize until all the bot farmed mat's dry up, then the crafting bot's will be forced to use non-bot farmed mats to supply their endeavors. Crafted gear/materials supplies will diminish, and prices will go up. The crafting bot's will still be there, but at much more reduced amount. That is why I hope SE implements Expert style crafting for all "Star" items. This will GREATLY reduce the bot's HQ success rate as they try to deal with expert RNG. Crafters get the complexity back, and gathering becomes lucrative again.

Will this all happen....I doubt it.