Bot's on Market Board...? Really?

[Sqwall]

I have heard lately that there are bot's on the Market Boards and that they are literally undercutting real players? Is this true?

Man I thought this crap was under control with the values Yoshida holds dearest. I think I remember him talking about RMT's a while back and how it almost destroyed FFXI and WoW. Which is why the "report RMT" is it's own category in FFXIV.

I remember ffxi RMT and it nearly made the game unplayable. To the point where RMT's owned the AH prices and not even new players could afford anything on the AH. Same goes for bot's camping NM's 24/7 to solely make money. I remember seeing 4-5 75's standing in the dunes where the Damselfly Emperor spawned. They only farmed it for the GIL, I farmed it so I could actually USE the hairpin. But no! It would be on the AH for 17-20mil gil. The RMT's kept prices high on the AH so people would flock to some RMT website purchase the GIL they "farmed" creating this quagmire of pricing run rampant.

I never did this as I didn't want to invest any money into a game I already invested money into. Seriously though making money in FFXI was abysmal compared to FFXIV where it practically rains from the sky. When I did my BNCM runs and FINALLY got a phalanx and Utsusemi: Ni scroll I made 30mil in literally 2 hours. That kept me afloat for years. But to get to that point was horrible, and this is why the 1-30 levels in FFXI will always stick in my mind for the rest of my life as they were just a true test to the community. FFXI was like Dark Souls level of gratification if you could make it through anything in that game.

I hope that FFXIV doesn't go this route of the cancer that is RMT/BOT's and honestly I pay a monthly fee to play this game. SE should see paying customers are unhappy with bots and do everything to remove them.

If Steam and Epic have robust anti-cheat software I would think a company like SE can implement this into their servers to keep RMT's at bay. At least giving people that farm and craft legitimately a chance and not sit on the retainer bell all damn day playing the undercutting game.

[tdb]

It seems unlikely that they could block player progression by controlling the MB. There's a multitude of ways to obtain gear, each easier than the last. For some of the more exclusive glamours, minions and mounts it could possibly work, but I guess there isn't enough market for ridiculously expensive glamour items for it to be profitable. Instead I've seen the RMT folks advertise full savage clears and i500 gear.

[ElazulHP]

It is definitely NOT under control. I crafted a few test pieces for the MB(to gauge the market) yesterday and I'm seeing bots that update prices every 30 minutes on the dot. It's really annoying and essentially kills my enjoyment crafting.

EDIT: I feel like a broken record saying this too. But really what else is there to say? Crafting is completely busted because of the bots.

[Jojoya]

It is definitely NOT under control. I crafted a few test pieces for the MB(to gauge the market) yesterday and I'm seeing bots that update prices every 30 minutes on the dot. It's really annoying and essentially kills my enjoyment crafting.

EDIT: I feel like a broken record saying this too. But really what else is there to say? Crafting is completely busted because of the bots.

A few test pieces isn't going to give you much information when there are thousands of different items to be crafted.

Bots are a problem in a few narrow crafting markets, primarily end game gear. There are plenty of other items to craft and sell for profit that bots aren't touching.

[ElazulHP]

A few test pieces isn't going to give you much information when there are thousands of different items to be crafted.

Bots are a problem in a few narrow crafting markets, primarily end game gear. There are plenty of other items to craft and sell for profit that bots aren't touching.

Few being 1 of my retainers full. There are bots in all the food, tinctures, crafting, gathering, and DoW/DoM gears & weapons/tools markets. I recognize the names as I've been crafting for years and used to live next door to one and saw the endless parade of naked bot alts rotating and updating prices at the bell right outside our homes. Some of those bots have been around since HW without being banned. Saying that it's "in a few narrow crafting markets" is also ignoring the fact that those are the markets that are most frequently purchased right after a patch releases and where it's most profitable at the right time. Why should I ignore them in favor of markets that sell less over longer periods. It's not worth my time and that is where the problem is. Crafting just isn't worth the time invested anymore unless you're crafting for the sake of crafting. Especially, when faced with bots that gather and craft 24/7 without logging off and have a bot updating prices literally every 30 minutes until whatever the set minimum level is. They'll bottom out prices until the margins are so razor-thin it's not worth it.

I'm legit been thinking the last few months of unsubscribing in protest tbh. Crafting has been one of my favorite activities for years in this game and with it ruined half the game isn't fun anymore.

[Sqwall]

A few test pieces isn't going to give you much information when there are thousands of different items to be crafted.

Bots are a problem in a few narrow crafting markets, primarily end game gear. There are plenty of other items to craft and sell for profit that bots aren't touching.

This is an issue and one that shouldn't be overlooked. This basically cheating when you boil it right down. I can't be on 24/7 to gather mats as I have a life, and i'm not a computer program that can just run and run and run. This isn't like I put a rubber band on my controller! This is a program someone put the time into to make and exploit the game to make actual real money for personal gain. If that doesn't offend the EULA I don't know what will anymore.

The real way to report this I suppose is to put in a real help desk ticket, but this could lead to unsubstantiated evidence and consume the help desk team considerably. It WAS a real problem in FFXI and destroyed the markets there. It wasn't until around Aht Urgen expansion that SE started to really see it impacting the game as it was nearly impossible to buy anything on the AH as a new incoming player. Which lead to loss in revenue for the game.

When it starts hitting their revenue stream is the only way SE will attempt to counter this. Currently now it doesn't as the sub's just keep going up for this game.

[Jojoya]

I've gotten into this argument in another thread, I'll summarize it again here.

Crafting is not busted because of the bots. Take the bots away and crafting actions will still be the same. Crafting recipes will be the same. Crafting rotations will be the same.

What is busted is your sales profit from items you previously found to be more lucrative to sell. Learn the difference between the two.

Even without the bots, the market would have ended up changing dramatically this expansion with the adjustments SE made to crafting and gathering so they would be more accessible to players. Increased competition would still have driven some prices down, though not to the degree the bots have done.

Why switch to other items that you wouldn't bother with in the past? Because a lot of those items are now just as profitable if not more so. Does it matter if you end up selling 2 each of 10 different items instead of 20 of the same item if the total net profit is the same? Lower level items are significantly cheaper and faster to make. That can be a form of profit in itself, leaving you with more time to do other things.

I get the frustration from the bot presence. I also wish SE would do something about it, though for different reasons.

Unsubscribing in protest is not a tactic that works unless you get a significant portion of the player base to do likewise for the same reason. It's only when players take a united stance that developers consider changing their decisions or how things are done.

Like I said in the other thread, it's hard to get other players to join you in support when you're argument is "I can't make as much gil as I used to". Most players were never making that much gil in the first place. They aren't going to care that you're getting richer at a slower rate.

This is an issue and one that shouldn't be overlooked. This basically cheating when you boil it right down. I can't be on 24/7 to gather mats as I have a life, and i'm not a computer program that can just run and run and run. This isn't like I put a rubber band on my controller! This is a program someone put the time into to make and exploit the game to make actual real money for personal gain. If that doesn't offend the EULA I don't know what will anymore.

The real way to report this I suppose is to put in a real help desk ticket, but this could lead to unsubstantiated evidence and consume the help desk team considerably. It WAS a real problem in FFXI and destroyed the markets there. It wasn't until around Aht Urgen expansion that SE started to really see it impacting the game as it was nearly impossible to buy anything on the AH as a new incoming player. Which lead to loss in revenue for the game.

When it starts hitting their revenue stream is the only way SE will attempt to counter this. Currently now it doesn't as the sub's just keep going up for this game.

I'm not saying it's something that should be overlooked.

I'm saying that crying "crafting is busted because of bots!" is the wrong argument to use because it's not. Proclaiming that you can't profit by selling things on the marketboard because of bots is the wrong argument to use because you can still craft things to sell things for profit on the marketboard (I'm still doing this daily).

The correct argument to use is that the use of bots to craft/gather and manipulate market prices is cheating. Players who put considerable effort into the game and don't cheat are now at a massive disadvantage to those who invested little effort and are cheating. That allowing the bots to proliferate has disrupted fair play and put the game's integrity at stake. The longer it continues, the more damage done to the game as players get fed up with a game developer that does nothing about cheating.

Make the issue one of how the game is damaged by the bots, not how a tiny percentage of players can't make as much gil as they used to.

[Sqwall]

I'm not saying it's something that should be overlooked.

The correct argument to use is that the use of bots to craft/gather and manipulate market prices is cheating. Players who put considerable effort into the game and don't cheat are now at a massive disadvantage to those who invested little effort and are cheating. That allowing the bots to proliferate has disrupted fair play and put the game's integrity at stake. The longer it continues, the more damage done to the game as players get fed up with a game developer that does nothing about cheating.

Make the issue one of how the game is damaged by the bots, not how a tiny percentage of players can't make as much gil as they used to.

I'm saying that crying "crafting is busted because of bots!" is the wrong argument to use because it's not. Proclaiming that you can't profit by selling things on the marketboard because of bots is the wrong argument to use because you can still craft things to sell things for profit on the marketboard (I'm still doing this daily).

Well I'm not crying about it at all. I'm simply privy to this information and it makes sense that I have to constantly check the MB as there is this insane undercutting game going on behind the scenes. This ruins the crafting gameplay, and I don't have the time to out bid a computer program as it's going to win every time. This isn't about profits or costs of materials, it's about manipulating a market from a game that the BOT controller has NO STACK IN.

This individual or group that admins 20-30 or even 50 bots do this not to upset the players. They do it because it's actually lucrative real money business. If they made $250 a day selling gil for real money that's $7,500 a month! this is still a win for the them as it covers there costs of subs for the month, and more money then I can generate in a month given my career. This is cheating and a sheer exploit. WoW had this. FFXI had this. LoTRO had this. And countless other MMO's.

If I was a company and a select few people were EXPLOITING and USING my product for there own personal gain, they would be in violation and I would bring the ban hammer down hard on these people, as well as legal action and seize there capital gained.

This is NO different then cheating in an eSports tournament when real money is at stack. Or rigging a gambling event (poker, slots, blackjack). Or someone writing a song and someone else downloading it for free (napster gone, limewire gone) Or someone infringing on patent regulations until the patent runs out. This is called fairness. There is NO SKILL in cheating, that's why it's called cheating. Same goes for making a bot program do all the work for you to attain real money.

[Nixxe]

I have heard lately that there are bot's on the Market Boards and that they are literally undercutting real players? Is this true?

It has always been my experience that players frustrated due to not being as successful as they had hoped with the MB are far more likely to accuse the MB of being overrun with bots or any given player who undercuts them of being a bot than you are to actually encounter any sort of MB bot.

[NamidaTekika]

It has always been my experience that players frustrated due to not being as successful as they had hoped with the MB are far more likely to accuse the MB of being overrun with bots or any given player who undercuts them of being a bot than you are to actually encounter any sort of MB bot.

Except bots HAVE infested the gathering/crafting MBs and housing as well. Theres multiple threads and many many accounts. I'd even post screencaps if it wasn't 'naming and shaming' of how bots swarm on nodes for example, and I'm sure the 9+ bots that are on 24/7 (and those are the ones I know of) just never sell those mats (oh wait, within day 2 of the last patch there were some people selling stacks of 99 of the new mats, and not one stack but like 20-30 of them of timed node stuff and aethersand). The bots exist and have for a long while (the same ones no less) acting like they don't is being willfully ignorant.