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  1. #1
    Player
    Katie_Kitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    952
    Character
    Princess Whiskers
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsien View Post
    You are aware that not every thread involving any of the 3 casters is automatically about RDM, right? Asking to make a currently useless and trappy skill to not be so, on one of the hardest jobs in the game, isn't an attack on Red Mage and won't unseat it from being one of the hardest, most punishing classes available.
    BLM has no need for scathe at this point. That's just a fact. They have all the movement tools they need. In fact you can even argue that it's been made too easy over time to justify all the people who still claim erroneously that "BLM is super hard and that's why it needs to do a million damage."

    Just saying this is a pointless change.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    wereotter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    2,106
    Character
    Antony Gabbiani
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Most jobs have skills that they retain at level 80 that lost their usefulness long before that. Scathe is just another of those that while you've obtained better tools, there's no real skill that can outright replace it and have it still make sense in the same way as something like upgrading Thunder to Thunder 3.

    Other examples are things such as Fists of Earth becomes entirely useless on monk once you obtain Fists of Fire. Tranpose in your own kit loses a lot of its value once you have Fire 3 and Blizzard 3 and then looses it entirely once you have Umbral Soul. Ninja has no use these days for Fuma Shuriken, Summoner has very little use for Ruin 2.

    These skills fill a gap that you might need/want in your kit at lower levels, that's all they're there for. Maybe they'll be culled in a future expansion, otherwise you can just not place them on your bar once they no longer serve a purpose and forget they exist.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Beddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    274
    Character
    Titania Chevalier
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by wereotter View Post
    Tranpose in your own kit loses a lot of its value once you have Fire 3 and Blizzard 3 and then looses it entirely once you have Umbral Soul.
    Umbral Soul can only be used under the effects of Umbral Ice. If you end combat with a Fire skill you still need Transpose to switch over which does make it useful all the way through to 80. If a boss is going to disappear then I'm going to want hit them with a Despair before they go, I can Transpose and Umbral Soul when I'm not doing anything.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    wereotter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    2,106
    Character
    Antony Gabbiani
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Beddict View Post
    Umbral Soul can only be used under the effects of Umbral Ice. If you end combat with a Fire skill you still need Transpose to switch over which does make it useful all the way through to 80. If a boss is going to disappear then I'm going to want hit them with a Despair before they go, I can Transpose and Umbral Soul when I'm not doing anything.
    I don't play much black mage, so thank you for the information. Though the fact remains that the skill wains in usefulness at higher levels, and there are still several skills on other jobs that, like Scathe, have no use by the time you're at level 80, which was my point. It's there to serve a purpose a lower levels, and that purpose gets over shadowed by better skills as you level, but those skills don't replace Scathe because they're not the same kind. Like they couldn't effectively replace Scathe with Sharpcast or Triplecast
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    waifugenerator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    149
    Character
    Shatotto Totto
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 92
    I only use Scathe in pre-lv44 content as a way to weave transpose cos I REFUSEEEEE to go straight from f1 to transpose it feels wrong in a single target rotation
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Doctor_Minime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Doctor Bunbun
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    I just want something that's not "stop casting and move, lose most of a gcd, then f4 again". Even if it's mostly DPS neutral. It's not OP to ask for QOL changes ya know
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Eliadil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    131
    Character
    Adrila Messor
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor_Minime View Post
    I just want something that's not "stop casting and move, lose most of a gcd, then f4 again". Even if it's mostly DPS neutral. It's not OP to ask for QOL changes ya know
    This reason is fine, for sure. And it's also why Sharpcast exists, as well as Pyro and Thunder procs. You can get a pyro proc every time you enter your fire phase, which is plenty enough to get the mobility you need for most fights, don't worry. Try playing a bit around it, you'll see that you actually have an enormous amount of mobility just because of this skill alone.
    (0)
    Still not sure if Samurai's a tank who forgot that aggro was a thing or a dps that's way too much into it.

  8. #8
    Player
    Doctor_Minime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Doctor Bunbun
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliadil View Post
    This reason is fine, for sure. And it's also why Sharpcast exists, as well as Pyro and Thunder procs. You can get a pyro proc every time you enter your fire phase, which is plenty enough to get the mobility you need for most fights, don't worry. Try playing a bit around it, you'll see that you actually have an enormous amount of mobility just because of this skill alone.
    Sharpcast helps a bit, pyro procs don't happen every time we F1 (kinda wish it did? maybe?), and triplecast is used on CD for DPS gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miminming View Post
    if it's dps neutral it's pretty much a buff because you can now just braindead it why playing wrongly... ad get same dps

    i don't mind any buff but still should be significantly low, i don't want to the appear of scathe mage...
    DPS neutral compared to moving and losing uptime, DPS loss to spam it.

    Quote Originally Posted by waifugenerator View Post
    Just delete scathe we have so many mobility tools at this point that we almost don't really have any trade off for our absurdly high DPS — bar having no utility
    I don't feel like we do though. There's a reason BLM is #3 on the death list.




    In my opinion, Scathe should be removed - replaced with a soloing tool like Drain - and Blizzard 1 should be instant. Maybe even add an extra trait at high level that makes Fire 1 instant after its replaced with Fire IV.

    Two birds with one stone.
    This guy gets it. That's actually not a bad idea, make F1 & B1 instacast! And upgrading scathe to drain would give some survivability options when not in a dungeon/raid.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor_Minime View Post
    This guy gets it. That's actually not a bad idea, make F1 & B1 instacast! And upgrading scathe to drain would give some survivability options when not in a dungeon/raid.
    Blizzard 1 is pretty pointless after you unlock UI3, and with Umbral Soul there's already precedent for "instant UI refresher"; giving the same to B1 at least at early-mid levels (if not baseline) would still give Umbral Soul a space for when the boss can't be targeted. If you see a hit coming and desperately need to move, no Triplecast or Xeno or procs, worst case scenario you can Transpose then B1 spam until you can sit still. Sure you would lose DPS, but that's just a given for BLM any time they need to move anyway, and Scathing during AF is probably a bigger loss on MP costs alone.
    Extending it to Fire 1 would actually be a huge QoL buff, if not a small DPS buff, so I could see them adding some kind of trait for that well into the 70s or 80s.

    As for Drain, presently BLM only has Sleep and Manaward to survive in solo content, and from my memory it really wasn't enough for a lot of the solo scenarios you run into while questing. It doesn't have Vercure, early Physick or Titan, Bloodbath or Second Wind to recover, and Manaward is basically the BLM equivalent to the DR from Arm's Length.
    So long as it's not the version of Drain we had in Stormblood anyway. Something stronger but still spammable. I usually say shoot for around 200 potency with 100%-150% healing. Still a DPS loss, but at least a decent amount of healing if you string several casts.
    (2)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 08-30-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Miminming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Arclest Aura
    World
    Belias
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    if it's dps neutral it's pretty much a buff because you can now just braindead it why playing wrongly... ad get same dps

    i don't mind any buff but still should be significantly low, i don't want to the appear of scathe mage...
    (0)

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