Chemist Kit theorycraft

[Ghostwk]

I would like to throw my idea for Chemist out into the open, although im sure many have had similar thoughts.

I envision the base kit as a mixture of ninja and dancer in function, with the 3 main abilities being a healing potion(green), a damage potion(red), and a status ailment potion(blue, buffs/debuffs). The idea would be that you can use each potion individually for quick applications and base effects, but you could also combo them together(think casting ninjutsu) by starting a mix, then confirming it after you press the buttons in whichever order you want to create stronger potions, or "items". If a mixture is failed, an animation similar to the rabbit hat for Ninja could take place, but also serve a purpose. The failed potions could later be Cast, or Thrown, at a target for damage potency depending on the amt of failed concoctions.

Here is a list of Items that I think would be likely and make sense;

Phoenix Down - AoE revive, can only be used once per engagement.

Grenade - AoE damage

Giant's Drink - Target gains HP, Party HP Gain

Hero's Drink - Targe Temporary invulnerability

Hard body - Target damage mitigation, Party Damage Mitigation

Speed Drink - Target Movement speed bonus, Party Movement speed bonus, no effect during battle

Power Drink - Target secondary stat boost depending on job, Party secondary stat boost

Poison Potion - Target DoT, AoE DoT


In addition, a buff partner ability like Dancer's partner, perhaps called "lab assistant" could be used to target another party member to gain additional effects for both players when a potion is used.

oGCD abilities could include iconic abilities from throughout other games in the series, including;

Pharmacology - double the potency of all healing effects.

Experiment - allows the combining of 2 finished/completed potions. for instance, a healing potion combines with an AoE damage potion, to create an effect similar to Assize.

Smelt - combine 2 stored potions/items into one for extra potency.

Forge - create potion "charges" for later use

Cast/Throw - toss all failed mixtures at a target for damage with potency based off of the amount of failed mixtures, up to 4)

Safeguard - nullify/shield damage against a target party member for potency of the last healing potion applied.

Astra - protects the target from the next negative status affect they would receive.

Toad Bomb - Turns target into a Toad, no effect on bosses, percentage lower vs higher level targets.

there are plenty of other items i missed, i am sure, and maybe some important abilities others would want as well. Some of this may be too much or too strong as well, but I wrote it with the intention of sparking better ideas and hopefully giving developers some inspiration for creating a new healer that is engaging and fun to play with a very active playstyle that rewards you for comboing well but isnt too punishing when you dont.

[RicaRuin]

I think an AoE Revive is way too hefty. Basically a free Heal LB3.

Also, a buffing healer like this won't happen. This one would bring so many advantages beyond other healers that parties would start to require one for every encounter.

[Mimilu]

Some of my thoughts and questions:
-You didn't really list how this job would heal. >x>
-What is the cooldown like on Mix? How frequently are you going to use it versus the individual potions you use to mix with?
-Like RicaRuin said, Phoenix Down is a slightly weaker Healer LB3, which can still turn the tides of a fight too easily. I would suggest just let it be a single-target revive. With this, it can be an MP-free, insta-revive that you used your mix on instead of DPS or Healing.
-What kind of additional effects does having/being a Lab Assistant give?

[Recon1o6]

some good ideas, some bad ones. Hero's drink and Phoenix down wouldn't be a thing for example, the former would only be something if its part of the chemists emergency heal like benediction/lustrate/essential dignity, the latter is already an item in game

the poison dot and grenade are good ideas. Very fitting, though hopefully not a ground targeted aoe in the latter case (ground aoes can be a bit laggy)

[Risvertasashi]

-You didn't really list how this job would heal. >x>
-What is the cooldown like on Mix? How frequently are you going to use it versus the individual potions you use to mix with?

On the one hand, healers have been homogenized enough that I kind of get why someone might elide this part.

On the other hand, if someone then goes and gives a 'doubles healing potencies' buffs, this part can't really be excluded as this kind of power has to be balanced out elsewhere - leaving out the nitty gritty on how the healing works doesn't let us see this.

I think not listing specific cooldowns is kind of OK.... It's something the dev team would have to balance. But, then, specifying that an effect doubles potencies raises an eyebrow on the balance front, and as has been pointed out, aoe raise is definitely overkill...

[Jonnycbad]

LB3 should be Megalixir.

[Ghostwk]

I left out specific numbers because those would all need to be figured out internally by the design team to come up with something balanced that makes the class fall in line with the other healers. I was basically just throwing out some ideas for abilities (some cases word for word, others i tried to make them fit 14 because of what they actually did) and what they could do to make them feel similar, yet unique. a big concern ive heard about the mixing mechanic is that it would be too slow for healing, so I dont want to say that using ninjutsu exactly as a model for it would work, although I think that would be a decent start to see how it works, and if it is in fact too slow in an end game scenario. My thoughts are that, Ninja does just fine, so I think something along those lines could work. Im imagining a combination of how dancing and ninjutsu both works, how you "start" a dance, then "end" it, but having a 3 step button combo you can press in different orders to create a bunch of different items for various uses. It could also be as simple as ninjutsu where you press a button then "confirm" it with Mix. it just seemed more appropriate to add a prep button, your 3 button mixing phase, then "Mix" as your confirmation button. It would all fall on how you want the items or potions to actually work though. I think combining the 2 makes for a complex but simple gameplay experience, perhaps "Mix" is your button that starts your sequence and finishes it, and "throw" is your use button.

to be fair, mixing and potion creation would be the staple, so i feel like it should be doing that a lot of the time, if not most. but using single potions should also be a phase or thing you should have to do as well, so Im not sure what the balancing would be like on that. It all depends on timings and what works for general gameplay and end game raiding, but if you are a healer or have played one, I think you can kind of visualize the gameplay in your head. base potions being used for like trash pulls and dungeon content, or spot heals, mixing to set up for big pulls, or lots of incoming damage, similary to how you set on a different healer. Thats why I feel like mixing in and before combat happens and being able to "store" some potions prior would help a bit with the concern that mixing might be too slow for healing. but my exact vision would be like this;

you have 3 potions, red, green, blue. you press Red, "throw" and it deals damage to the target. you press green, then "throw" and it heals the target. Those are GCD abilities.
now you start a mix phase, by pressing "Mix", green, blue, "mix" this makes a oGCD potion that heals for more, and is AoE, readily available as soon as it is mixed, but can also be stored.
lets say you saved that potion, and you start a mix again, and you mix red, blue this time. this creates a grenade or molotov, also a stored potion. Now you can "experiment" and combine the 2 stored potions to create a potion that AoE heals and deals AoE damage, similar to Assize from white mage. since it took so many steps to make, I feel like the damage and healing potency could both be upscaled to be a little stronger than what Assize is, that was always the trade off for Chemists in other games.

now lets say you failed somewhere in that whole situation, and a big poof cloud happens and your character's face is charred and everyone knows you failed your potion. that creates 1 failed potion charge shown on your buffs bar. you could "cast" it out at the enemy, and deal a bit of damage, or save for more failed potions and add a bit more potency to it. Since you have an assistant, they would help you "cast" out failed potions and share in the fun of your failures. With that kind of mechanic, hopefully you can kind of envision things how i do as well as this chaotic all over the place controlled chaos type of gameplay, a mad scientist and their lackey kind of thing.

all in all, your healing would come from either using your single target healing potion, or mixing stronger healing potions with different effects depending on how you mix up, and the cooldowns and what not would all have to be balanced depending on the effects and how exactly you want it all to take place.



As for being a lab assistant, I was thinking when a potion or item is used, or maybe even when youre mixing, the assistant shares the effects, and i kind of thought it would be more interesting as a co-healer experience, so its not just another "throw it on a DPS" ability. For instance, when you pop Pharma, it could give them a potency buff as well, and whenever you use a healing pot, they gain a small bonus to their next heal as well, or something to that effect. I think it could be a fun and interesting co healer experience if the devs or we as players thought that it seemed fun and doable, because your interactions as healer buddies right now already exist, and it could be an interesting way for healers to work together during the course of a fight to plan out healing and damaging phases.

Hero's Drink I think could work if balanced correctly. I could see the Chemist being able to mix during combat as well as pre pull, storing a set amt of charges before a fight starts, and the "potions/items" sharing cooldowns in some cases, or having their own in others. Hero's Drink is one of those items you dont get many of and you have to use with good timing and you only get pretty much one chance to use it during a fight. It would be like giving an extra holmgang to a warrior, or maybe even just function as a shielding potion instead to fit the balance of the game if invuln is deemed too strong.

A lot of the ability design is copied right out of other games, some of it is changed to fit 14 better as well. Doubling potency could be too strong, but it could easily just be changed to 20% or something similar to an existing ability, because it would still do essentially the same thing as what Pharma does in other games.

Phoenix Down as an AoE revive seems extremely poweful, and i understand that, but Ive also been part of an LB3 that goes off and.... does absolutely nothing but get everyone killed again. I added it in because it is kind of a signature thing we dont have in 14 yet that is in every other game, and I think it could be balanced still because youd still be reviving in a weakened state. I still imagine it as mixing a single target revive potion, then mixing an AoE potion, then combining the 2 for an AoE revive that can only have on use per encounter, so it would probably be a potion you create pre pull, and until its used, it takes the place of a single target revive, so youd have to choose wisely when to use it.

thanks for the feedback though, appreciate you all taking the time to read it and add imput. I thought about all the gil abilities and stuff Rikku uses too, but it seemed more fitting for Thief moreso than chemist. Keep the ideas and refining coming though, Hopefully the team takes a look and at least finds some kind of inspiration or something from what we write here

[Aurelius2625]

healer LB 3 getting people killed right after isn't the LB's fault... it's the rookie healer that doesn't know WHEN to press the LB.

[Lyth]

I think that people who are looking for a new healing job are looking for something that offers a different experience from the existing healing options. I think that the idea of 'mixing' effects between potions and/or toxins (in the same vein as Bravely Default's Salve Maker) is a good idea.

One way to do this is to play with ground effect fields. Let's say that you throw a potion at someone, much like FFT's chemist. There's an upfront heal to the target, as well as a heal over time ground effect field that heals up anyone who stands in your healing puddle. Let's say that you throw a second potion. That then interacts with the 'over time' effect of the first if the fields overlap. So as an example, let's say you threw a Potion, followed by a Hi-Potion, and the two fields overlapped. The heal-over-time effect might be enhanced. Alternatively, if you thew a Potion, followed by a Grenade, perhaps the field ignites, with healing over time for your team and damage over time for enemies standing inside.

As far as resource systems are concerned, I think it would be interesting to play with a system that was more cooldown dependant than resource dependent, especially with the 'charge' system available for some oGCDs. You could create a healer that wasn't reliant on MP at all. Also, don't forget about Auto-Potion. That almost certainly has to show up.

I think that there should be a limit placed on resurrection effects across all healers. Phoenix Down can be a single target rez, but there should be a shared number of uses per fight across all healer equivalents.

[manamoppet]

Regarding the Hero's Drink, I would suggest that instead of flat immunity to damage, it would maybe be better to grant immunity to certain conditions (that can be removed with Esuna), along with a temporary increase to maximum HP, and a lesser shield that rebuilds itself at a certain rate for a small period of time (like a regenerating lesser Adloquium/Divine Benison shield).

Inspiration: D&D 5e spells 'Heroism', and 'Heroic Feast'.

Edit:
Regarding Mix and throwing/shooting potions: Something that's available in FFXIV and could function as a background in mixing and such for someone that maybe can't use as much aether to heal and do magic as the job would require could e.g. be aether crystal clusters. Use water crystal clusters to get the potion water, then enchant that to get the healing/other effect. One could add aether from other crystals like fire clusters for bomb effects, earth clusters for shields, ice clusters for slow/dot, lighting clusters for dot, and so on, maybe?