Buffs to dragoon

[Renkei]

@Renkai's edited explanation in regards to adding a Charge to Geirskogul/Nastrond:
(Sorry I didn't edit earlier to save the trouble of further explanation! I had to be away from keyboard for a bit.

Again, I'm fully aware of the delay interactions. My only question was what you meant by the added Charge and what you wanted from it, which your previous post already made clear, I think.)


Wouldn't this be accomplished as easily by "Refresh Geirskogul upon exiting LotD", or "No longer cause Nastrond to inflict an ICD onto Geirskogul"?

In either case, now that understand what you mean by charges, and --hopefully-- what you want from them, by all means, it seems a great idea. You could practically pass it off as an almost purely QoL change.

This is called a single-direction (or "unidirectional") ICD. (This means an "internal cooldown", as opposed to the "('nominal', 'base', or 'ability') cooldown", i.e. one lower than the actual/ability/base CD that is inflicted by some larger system, shared ID, or other skill or mechanic which does not explicitly state that it'd trigger its CD.)

Geirskogul and Nastrond do not "share CDs" exactly, because they are of different lengths (and they therefore cannot share charges, as far as I'm aware), but they do share... let's call them... spell-slot IDs. That sharing is the reason you may notice certain CDs being on cooldown when you swap off another job on which you used some other CDs. Note also that in all other cases in which these are shared, they are shared in flat duration, never percentile. The most notorious example of this has been Hallowed Ground and Lustrate sharing a slot, thus placing Lustrate on the remainder of its 7-minute cooldown after swapping.

Vestigially, because Nastrond is an upgrade of Gierskogul, it inflicts its cooldown onto the latter. Or, at least that seems the most likely reason. The Geirskogul->Nastrond direction inflicts nothing, either because of how the inheritance is encoded or because activating Life of the Dragon instantly refreshes the slot. There are two possible reasons why : either (1) something about either of the two required that they be in the same slot, or (2) the system could not otherwise track the cooldown of a skill that has been (for the duration of LotD) replaced, which at the time would have made a 21-second LotD duration superior to a 30-second as you'd return to Geirskogul with it automatically refreshed (since its cooldown progress data wasn't retained). Who knows. The latter is no longer an issue, though I wouldn't put it past them to leave something vestigial as an oversight.

Here you'd basically just be correcting that oversight, which is great. I personally slightly enjoy the tight demands of a 6N weave, but I also enjoyed the high-SkS TK rotation, which, due to its needing to be timed to the quarter-second, was disgustingly niche. So I realize I'm not the majority opinion in this regard. [SIZE="1"(For a more DRG-ish context, I also loved the hell out of the 2.33 GCD dungeoning build back in HW for its extra Geirskoguls on one of my two DRGs, mostly for its tightness and seeming capacity for ingenuity.)[/SIZE]

This seems a good change on the whole. Perhaps you could polish up the wording to be more easily read and post it where it's not likely to be distracted from by what you've written to me specifically?

Edit: In regards to Monk, we already know it's being revamped and have little idea what to expect -- personally, I expect it will be gutted to solely what is "functional", rather than its actual issues being addressed sensibly, thus shafting the veterans who enjoyed most of what was fundamental to and intentional in the job's design -- so it's little worth worrying how DRG will pair up against it. Let's just deal with DRG's issues for now. As I've already said before, I'm a fan of removing BotD as a timer since it seems to only act as bloat and awkward "DRGs get screwed in fights X, Y, and Z" mechanic.

Removing the Nos->Geir ICD and BotD-as-a-timer would already do a fair bit to smooth out the job. Is there anything else you had in mind, though?

Yeah Sorta. they still share the same Slot, Simply Changing Nastrond to a Charge ability sharing that slot wouldn't make the charge timer triggered until you entered LoTD. as Geirskogul exiting "ICD" is Based on Nastrods last used "ICD".It could Still Inflict ICD onto Geirskogul though but it couldn't give it multiple charges because Geirskogul can only have a Max of 1 uses as it's not a charge ability. But if time was remaining on the last charge of Nastrond before conversion it would still apply to the shared ICD based on the remaining time on the final used charge and place it on Geirskogul. For Charge Values higher then the Value of Geirskogul uses such as 2 or 3 it would discard it when applying it to Geirskogul Never exceeding a value of 1.


but it will also require "Refresh Nastrond Upon Entering LotD" Which in Effect Only Gives Nastrond a single Charge stack and starts the charging timer 10 seconds per stack up to 2 Stacks since you start with 1 would equal the same 6N weave.
Assuming that the Value of a charged ability increases based on uses.


It is targeted at correcting that Over-sight Yes. it has the potential to add flexibility to gearing the job as well as flexibility of bursting in different compositions.

It could pass as a QoL Change, and it would also add a flexible timing window needed to add new mechanics in the future. such as a new state or ability requiring 2 Eyes while In Life of the Dragon.
Without effecting damage output through potency changes.

2.32-33 depending on your ping is still a thing and is the only way to get max value out of Life Surge. unfortunately it doesn't get along at all with the rest of DRG anymore as it doesn't help generate resources like in heavensward.


Reply to Edit : I am actually a bit afraid of what they could be changing, I hope it doesn't get gutted though because Monks have suffered enough with dealing with the redundancy in design that and the chunkiness that should have been smoothed out to begin with.

The Least they can do is let you keep Eye Stacks regardless if BoTD falls off, Kinda like Enochain generates Polyglot on BLM but keeps them even if it falls off. This also applies above.
It is clunky bloat, it made more sense when it had a function in heavensward. Which would kinda still work with the modern system. but since Geirskogul no longer costs time it makes no sense.


The only other things I've had in mind are future Expansion Abilities, I Would like an ability to exist to expend the remaining time to force end LoTD. (Lancet) And i would like to see An Introduction of a separate second eye stack for Star-diver. As well as a state requiring lining up both eyes at full unlock to enter Soul of the Dragon with the successful execution of Lancet. But i cannot come up with anything besides adding a more powerful Star-diver like jump,Free Wheeling/Fang Use, or even another LASER when entering that state. This Soul of the Dragon state would end up landing outside of the 6n burst at 2 eyes, and within the second 6n window burst if needing 4 stacks.

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah Sorta. they still share the same Slot, Simply Changing Nastrond to a Charge ability sharing that slot wouldn't make the charge timer triggered until you entered LoTD. as Geirskogul exiting "ICD" is Based on Nastrods last used "ICD".It could Still Inflict ICD onto Geirskogul though but it couldn't give it multiple charges because Geirskogul can only have a Max of 1 uses as it's not a charge ability. But if time was remaining on the last charge of Nastrond before conversion it would still apply to the shared ICD based on the remaining time on the final used charge and place it on Geirskogul. For Charge Values higher then the Value of Geirskogul uses such as 2 or 3 it would discard it when applying it to Geirskogul Never exceeding a value of 1.

but it will also require "Refresh Nastrond Upon Entering LotD" Which in Effect Only Gives Nastrond a single Charge stack and starts the charging timer 10 seconds per stack up to 2 Stacks since you start with 1 would equal the same 6N weave.
Assuming that the Value of a charged ability increases based on uses.

Ultimately, though we just want two things, right?

1. To be able to delay/bank Nastrond casts, and
2. To be able to squish the delay between the 3rd Nastrond (LotD#1) and the following Geirskogul (opening LotD#2).

That seems most easily done by just breaking the link between the two and adding an aura to LotD whereby Nastrond's charge capacity is increased to 2. (This would appear, for all intents and purposes, as Nastrond simply having two charges, but uniquely starting with just the one, unlike all other multi-charge skills.)

If we want to go further than that, we might as well address the Eyes mechanic itself --- namely that, while execution can be banked, you can't get LotD lengths other than 30 seconds, making it harder to time specifically to the more awkward of fights.

2.32-33 depending on your ping is still a thing and is the only way to get max value out of Life Surge. unfortunately it doesn't get along at all with the rest of DRG anymore as it doesn't help generate resources like in heavensward.

As much as I hate slow jobs, I hate desync even more, depending on how badly it screws me over. Though, it's that last bit that hurts my soul in this case. I don't want to go back to how downtime-punishing HW was, but if that could be separated from the idea of attack speed affecting resource generation, I'd take that revised version in a heartbeat (so long as the higher-SkS version truly were competitive)...

[Renkei]

Ultimately, though we just want two things, right?

1. To be able to delay/bank Nastrond casts, and
2. To be able to squish the delay between the 3rd Nastrond (LotD#1) and the following Geirskogul (opening LotD#2).

That seems most easily done by just breaking the link between the two and adding an aura to LotD whereby Nastrond's charge capacity is increased to 2. (This would appear, for all intents and purposes, as Nastrond simply having two charges, but uniquely starting with just the one, unlike all other multi-charge skills.)

If we want to go further than that, we might as well address the Eyes mechanic itself --- namely that, while execution can be banked, you can't get LotD lengths other than 30 seconds, making it harder to time specifically to the more awkward of fights.



As much as I hate slow jobs, I hate desync even more, depending on how badly it screws me over. Though, it's that last bit that hurts my soul in this case. I don't want to go back to how downtime-punishing HW was, but if that could be separated from the idea of attack speed affecting resource generation, I'd take that revised version in a heartbeat (so long as the higher-SkS version truly were competitive)...

1. Yeah that's exactly it, Just the ability to delay and bank/store Nastrond casts.
2. Yeah it's strange that Nastrond Is NOT Auto-casted when activating Lotd with Geirskogul it would save time and prevent the Desync that Jump and Geirskogul suffer from towards the end of fights. You can really feel this in the burst window as you have to purposely delay it to throw out Mirage Dive to prevent clipping. Even though you can use any other dive with it fine after the LoTD transition.

What's interesting is it can be implemented since Enochain has a similar effect with generation of Poly stacks but it's considered charges but stored as an UI element. It'd still work with ability charge though as it's treated as such.

3. Eye's shouldn't be loss when BoTD is loss and/or BoTD should be Traited.


another future solution would be an ability that can force you out of LoTD.The issue with this is even with Star-diver being 30 seconds it'll cause an issue where you'd lose a use completely. Kind of like how you have to purposely stall LoTD during 6N so you can execute 2 Star-divers.
Star-diver should either be the ability to you use to END LoTD as it's cool-down length exceeds the duration of LoTD It would have to be adjusted to 20 seconds. This would dramatically decrease the time you are forced holding Mirage Dives. There's always that timing where you have 2 eyes in LoTD. and you cannot use Geirskogul to enter it even after you expended all 3 lasers.

4. A Solution for the Ranged Attack problem with Dragoon could be just to increase the RANGE (Length not width.) of the Linear AOE Combat, The ultimate problem with it though is it not properly generating disembowel value.
This could be an easy fix for the range attack solution as they are preexisting.

I'd like to be faster too but Desync is a really real problem for OGCD/CD Heavy Jobs which could be fixed by treating all abilities as Weaponskills, but it also has the potential to break the game because the value of faster burst windows eventually eats the value of higher crit etc, but critical has been defacto best for a long time so it's not anything to wild. It's a design over-sight that i hope will get addressed.

I remember those times it made me wonder why the resource generation wasn't stored into a gauge to begin with (why they didn't make TP gained from attacking instead of losing it to spend on more powerful abilities is beyond me). Expending Buff Timer of BoTD for Geirskogul's was a great idea though. but there has to be a better solution to that, with Dragoon's Linearity it caused weird interactions. especially taking into account Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize delaying your only 2 abilities to generate said gauge, a system like that would probably work out better now as long as the TIMING cap was increased and the resource generation was decreased due to the nature of tighter generation we now with the back to back WT/FC.
Effectively the design ended up losing content which it filled with WT/FC. Not to mention Losing Power Surge (one of the coolest looking abilities) and gaining dragon-sight, and the recent Gutting of Blood for Blood which leads me to another idea.

5. Dragon-Sight Removal or Adjustment, Current system OGCD Design of Dragoon Accounts for the existence of HT in it's rotation, Forcing a ally target ability to be weaved with a normal ability: With the recent adjustments to Battle-Litany, and removal of Heavy Thrust and Changing of Blood for Blood to Lance Charge.
Dragon-Sight should be removed and it's bonuses should be consumed by Existing Abilities here is some data I've Collected. Dragon Sight DPS =1,538.1 , Lance Charge DPS=2,021.3, Life Surge DPS = 911.0 ,Battle Litany =1,062.9 With this math you could Effectively Move 5% damage over to Lance charge (Lance Charge 20%) and Distribute the Rest into Litany (Litany 15%). Increasing Lance Charge DPS TO : 2,526.25‬, and Battle Litany to 15% results in 1,593‬, Totally 4,119.25‬ RDPS, Versus 4,622.3‬ of the current system, Additionally, The remaining output would probably be eaten up by the Increase in DPS in the 3min 2,774.0dps window both litany and Lance Charge Line up Linearly which buffs. Which equals Exactly 4,771‬ DPS. Not Exactly Game Breaking or anything for the huge QoL. This Change would result in an estimated 148.7‬ RDPS Gain and a damage loss in low man content

1. the ability to delay and bank/store Nastrond casts through Adding charge feature to Nastrond.
2. Nastrond Auto-casted when activating Life of the Dragon with Geirskogul.
3."Eye's" shouldn't be loss when blood of the dragon is loss and/or blood of the dragon should be Traited.
4. A Solution for the Ranged Attack problem with Dragoon could be just to increase the RANGE (Length not width.) of the Linear AOE Combat(Doom Spike > Sonic Thrust > Coerthan Torment) , The ultimate problem with it though is it not generating disembowel value.
This could be an easy fix for the range attack solution as they are preexisting. It also fixes the extending issue of Dragon Gauge.
5. Dragon-Sight Removal or Adjustment, Current system OGCD Design of Dragoon Accounts for the existence of HT in it's rotation, Forcing a ally target ability to be weaved with a normal ability: With the recent adjustments to Battle-Litany, and removal of Heavy Thrust and Changing of Blood for Blood to Lance Charge.
Dragon-Sight should be removed and it's bonuses should be consumed by Existing Abilities here is some data I've Collected. Dragon Sight DPS =1,538.1 , Lance Charge DPS=2,021.3, Life Surge DPS = 911.0 ,Battle Litany =1,062.9 With this math you could Effectively Move 5% damage over to Lance charge (Lance Charge 20%) and Distribute the Rest into Litany (Litany 15%). Increasing Lance Charge DPS TO : 2,526.25‬, and Battle Litany to 15% results in 1,593‬, Totally 4,119.25‬ RDPS, Versus 4,622.3‬ of the current system, Additionally, The remaining output would probably be eaten up by the Increase in DPS in the 3min 2,774.0dps window both litany and Lance Charge Line up Linearly which buffs. Which equals Exactly 4,771‬ DPS. Not Exactly Game Breaking or anything for the huge QoL. This Change would result in an estimated 148.7‬ RDPS Gain and a damage loss in low man content