[dev1358] Materia Reform - Discussion.

[Aceofspades]

Grudge, I dont think it Will. As far as competing with other gear, PLD af needs more then enmity to be honest. I for one love tanking on PLD but I can not say that the stats its AF gives realy supports its style of tanking. The ability enhancements are ok, but it dosent make up for the lack of DEF or VIT. And to be completly fair, hate controll realy wasnt an issue to begin with, just alot of WAR fan boys QQ about a job they obviously never play. I only ever had +8 enmity on my belt as a PLD and I keep hate just fine. the gear makes a differance but if the player is ignorant to the job then all the gear in the world wont make a lick of differance.

[illriginalized]

SE instead of coming out with new materia... how about you FIX the stats so that the materia isn't as useless.

brb 1000 points of defense to see a noticeable difference.

[Rydin]

I wouldn't mind tabs.... In fact I would love it... even if it still used the same 200 inventory spots

[syntaxlies]

I wouldn't mind tabs.... In fact I would love it... even if it still used the same 200 inventory spots

we will be getting bags that hold like 25 items each in 2.0 i think. i wish they would respond to reducing the overall amount of materia available. Do we really need 16 different stat materia for poison resist(im guessing 16 maybe its 15 idk)

item reform+materia= 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[Kio]

I personally would prefer separated tabs for specific inventory type items (ie: armor, food, currencies, etc) for version 2.0, over the inventory bag system that's being advertised. I have always loathed bag systems in other MMO's, tabs in a centralized inventory would be so much more game-pad user friendly.

I can easily understand why each category may not be able to have it's own individual inventory limit as that would require greatly increasing per character and retainer the total amount of items which could be stored and may also negatively impact certain players whom need to hold more of a certain item (food for culinarians for example). However, both could be avoided if the concept was similar to how Sabaku_Usagi described, which if i understood correctly we all maintained the current 200 limit inventory and the tabs merely were for ease of searching through it. Course, I'm not a programmer, let alone a game developer so I don't know what strain a system like this would have on the game, but if it were possible that's really what I'd like to use.

[FlynnRider]

What Sabaku_Usagi described is perfect. Do it. Please.

[Rukkirii]

We received a lot of feedback in this thread regarding various things (like materia stats, materia slot placement, and other suggestions) that we compiled and passed along to the development team. The Item Team confirmed that they’ll look over the information and take it into consideration when planning further adjustments to materia (as well as new materia going forward).

In regards to manathirst materia specifically, our counterpart in Japan posted the following insight from the team. As stated here, and other language forums, players feel that the effects of manathirst materia are too weak, but the team disagrees. The current maximum MP recovery rate is 7.5% of the player’s maximum MP, so if their maximum MP is increased by 100 through use of manathirst materia, an additional 7 MP is recovered every tick (3 seconds). Therefore, the team believes that the effectiveness of manathirst materia is balanced alongside other materia.

However, as we said, we will continue to gather your feedback and comments and pass them along to the team for them to consider for future adjustment, so please continue submitting your feedback.

[Molly_Millions]

If it's the MP regen rate that's an issue, why not change the MP regen algorithm instead of keeping one type of materia useless?

[Sol_Aureus]

We received a lot of feedback in this thread regarding various things (like materia stats, materia slot placement, and other suggestions) that we compiled and passed along to the development team. The Item Team confirmed that they’ll look over the information and take it into consideration when planning further adjustments to materia (as well as new materia going forward).

In regards to manathirst materia specifically, our counterpart in Japan posted the following insight from the team. As stated here, and other language forums, players feel that the effects of manathirst materia are too weak, but the team disagrees. The current maximum MP recovery rate is 7.5% of the player’s maximum MP, so if their maximum MP is increased by 100 through use of manathirst materia, an additional 7 MP is recovered every tick (3 seconds). Therefore, the team believes that the effectiveness of manathirst materia is balanced alongside other materia.

However, as we said, we will continue to gather your feedback and comments and pass them along to the team for them to consider for future adjustment, so please continue submitting your feedback.

First off, thank you for the info Rukkirii, we appreciate the responses.

This information worries me though, if the development team truly thinks that 7 MP/tic is worthwhile at all, given the current MP costs of spells and the potency of in-battle MP recovery. This is one of the reasons the Darklight Cowl is practically worthless, the +3 Refresh is...a nice bonus I guess, but it's so negligible. It'd take 4 minutes and 40 seconds to get enough MP for one Cura, or 3 minutes and 30 seconds for one Thunder. Those are very basic spells for White Mage and Black Mage, and considering how long boss fights last, it's one, MAYBE two extra of those spells. I think the development team is putting way too much weight into how good they think the Refresh effect is.

Personally, it'd need to be a minimum of +10 for me to even consider using it, especially over the +7~10% extra cure potency I get from AF.

This includes the auto-refresh that WHM and BLM get as well, 3 MP/tic is negligible. Especially considering how easy it is to recover MP in battle as a mage. Stand in place. It takes 9 seconds for your first "resting" tic. With my current MP pool of 3299, that's 35 MP (without a Party Bonus). Next tic is 101 (12 seconds), followed by 200 where it caps (15, 18, 21, etc. seconds)

So for standing in place for 15 seconds, I get 327 MP (336 - 9 from auto-refresh trait). For Auto-refresh or the Darklight Cowl's 3 MP/tic to give me that much MP, it'd take 5 minutes and 27 seconds. 15 seconds versus 5½ minutes. This is the reason refresh and a lot of other MP recovery methods are practically worthless: that we can regain MP in battle very very easily. If we couldn't get MP back so easily, refresh would be much much more valuable. If it took, say, 30 seconds to get the first "resting" tic and it took longer to get to the higher values (instead of 35-101-200-200-200, have it go 35-35-35-70-70-70-130-130-130-200-200-200) then in-battle MP management might actually be an issue. I certainly don't really want to be out of commission for so long just to get a little bit of MP, it'd take 51 seconds to start getting substantial returns (the 130s) under this model. This would make me actually want to manage my MP during combat, it'd give more incentive to bring more Ethers and Elixirs, and refresh would actually mean something, as every little bit would help. As it is now though, the most effective way to get MP is to stand there and do nothing for a short period of time.

That being said, BLM would need something more for MP gains, or Parsimony needs to get buffed a lot (reduce to 45s cooldown, much higher MP returns? somewhere around 600-700 like Blissful Mind?) otherwise BLM's would be out of MP really quickly.

In any case, something needs to be done with in-battle MP regeneration, it's much too potent right now which makes other means of MP recovery practically obsolete. Please pass this concern along to the development team.

[Matsume]

First off, thank you for the info Rukkirii, we appreciate the responses.

This information worries me though, if the development team truly thinks that 7 MP/tic is worthwhile at all, given the current MP costs of spells and the potency of in-battle MP recovery. This is one of the reasons the Darklight Cowl is practically worthless, the +3 Refresh is...a nice bonus I guess, but it's so negligible. It'd take 4 minutes and 40 seconds to get enough MP for one Cura, or 3 minutes and 30 seconds for one Thunder. Those are very basic spells for White Mage and Black Mage, and considering how long boss fights last, it's one, MAYBE two extra of those spells. I think the development team is putting way too much weight into how good they think the Refresh effect is.

Personally, it'd need to be a minimum of +10 for me to even consider using it, especially over the +7~10% extra cure potency I get from AF.

This includes the auto-refresh that WHM and BLM get as well, 3 MP/tic is negligible. Especially considering how easy it is to recover MP in battle as a mage. Stand in place. It takes 9 seconds for your first "resting" tic. With my current MP pool of 3299, that's 35 MP (without a Party Bonus). Next tic is 101 (12 seconds), followed by 200 where it caps (15, 18, 21, etc. seconds)

So for standing in place for 15 seconds, I get 327 MP (336 - 9 from auto-refresh trait). For Auto-refresh or the Darklight Cowl's 3 MP/tic to give me that much MP, it'd take 5 minutes and 27 seconds. 15 seconds versus 5½ minutes. This is the reason refresh and a lot of other MP recovery methods are practically worthless: that we can regain MP in battle very very easily. If we couldn't get MP back so easily, refresh would be much much more valuable. If it took, say, 30 seconds to get the first "resting" tic and it took longer to get to the higher values (instead of 35-101-200-200-200, have it go 35-35-35-70-70-70-130-130-130-200-200-200) then in-battle MP management might actually be an issue. I certainly don't really want to be out of commission for so long just to get a little bit of MP, it'd take 51 seconds to start getting substantial returns (the 130s) under this model. This would make me actually want to manage my MP during combat, it'd give more incentive to bring more Ethers and Elixirs, and refresh would actually mean something, as every little bit would help. As it is now though, the most effective way to get MP is to stand there and do nothing for a short period of time.

That being said, BLM would need something more for MP gains, or Parsimony needs to get buffed a lot (reduce to 45s cooldown, much higher MP returns? somewhere around 600-700 like Blissful Mind?) otherwise BLM's would be out of MP really quickly.

In any case, something needs to be done with in-battle MP regeneration, it's much too potent right now which makes other means of MP recovery practically obsolete. Please pass this concern along to the development team.

Facts:

In regards to manathirst materia specifically, our counterpart in Japan posted the following insight from the team. As stated here, and other language forums, players feel that the effects of manathirst materia are too weak, but the team disagrees. The current maximum MP recovery rate is 7.5% of the player’s maximum MP, so if their maximum MP is increased by 100 through use of manathirst materia, an additional 7 MP is recovered every tick (3 seconds). Therefore, the team believes that the effectiveness of manathirst materia is balanced alongside other materia.

Problem:

With my current MP pool of 3299, that's 35 MP (without a Party Bonus). Next tic is 101 (12 seconds), followed by 200 where it caps (15, 18, 21, etc. seconds)

3299mp x0.075 (7.5%) = 247.425 mp

Why is your mp per tic capped at 200 when it should be 247?

Is there a secondary stat necessary to up the mp per tic past 200?

Theoretically: There are 5 pieces to which manathirst materia can be melded: Weapon, Head, Body, Legs, and Waist. A tripple meld = 100mp on average. If you have triple meld Grade IV manathirst materia on all five pieces thats +500mp total x0.075 = +37.5mp/tic That's not so bad... ontop of your 247.425mp per tic you could get close to 300mp/tic.