Man & Machine: a MCH Thread

[ItMe]

Jobs that dont improve stagnate, wishing for jobs to continue doing nothing hurts the job.

When did I ever wish the job wouldn't improve or that it would continue doing nothing?
I was just saying I hope its rotation always remains open enough that its flexible.
I feel like you're straw manning me here.

"raging" If u like the job fine but if ur not gonna contribute to the debate without any counterclaims or perspective on ur behhave its best to just ignore the post all together

My contribution was to try and encourage people to see things from another angle.
Its rotation is simple, yes. But that also means it doesn't get screwed up as easily if the boss becomes untargetable, if there's a weird adds phase like in Shiva Savage, if you start skipping mechanics in unexpected ways, etc.
People pointing out a lotta cons, but I wanted to highlight some pros too.

[Kabooa]

People pointing out a lotta cons, but I wanted to highlight some pros too.

Alright, I'll say it.

I liked Stormblood Mach. I understand it was and still is a ping based job, but I happened to have suitable ping for it and I grew to love it. Stockholm syndrome maybe, but the more I played it the more I liked it.

Shadowbringers really isn't all that different. It more or less plays the same, it's just more rigid in its approach. Played as intended, it's the same loop, but you're not nearly as punished for the minor things.

Wildfire being minimized kind of sucks, but its balanced out by the lack of frustration that came from having 50% critical rate and only critting your Reassembled Clean shot. That's fine, I didn't feel like doing damage. That's somewhat moved to unmodified AA/Drills now, but that's fine. No different than any other job that relies on a high potency dump.

The robot is jank. It needs work. We need the ability to set a target for it somehow, both initially and after.

Wildfire as a 2min cooldown needs some more oomph to it - and it really should have AoE. Having the robot not interact with Wildfire is a giant waste of potential imo.

Flamethrower was never great, but it at least had purpose prior. It doesn't feel good to use even in its best case scenario. With the shift to the gadget focused Machinist, I hope Flamethrower gets adjusted so it doesn't feel awful while being objectively okay for its intended use. Ask me what I'd like and it changes by the day, but it's been mentioned (And today I happen to like the idea) of Flamethrower being a mode swap for the Machinist that puts them close range, changing their primary skill line and their "ammo" skills (Gauss/Ricochet), but a more realistic view is just AoE Air Anchor.

[Payotz]

My contribution was to try and encourage people to see things from another angle.
Its rotation is simple, yes. But that also means it doesn't get screwed up as easily if the boss becomes untargetable, if there's a weird adds phase like in Shiva Savage, if you start skipping mechanics in unexpected ways, etc.
People pointing out a lotta cons, but I wanted to highlight some pros too.

I'm sorry, but personally I don't really see the pros of the MCH changes as if something as strict as SMN can do the phase, so to can SB MCH.

In fact, since Wildfire was actually on a 60 seconds cooldown the past expansion, Wildfire can easily be put on one of the aqueous adds, and then bursted down that way. You'll immediately be able to put on Gauss Barrel on at the beginning of the next set of Adds, and then overheat Rapidfire again on the third wave of adds. If it's not enough, the devs can easily make it so that the adds aren't immune to Heavy, so that puts a lot more gameplay in the hands of physical rdps.

And in terms of boss becoming untargetable, old MCH can easily just early Flamethrower into Overheat in bosses where they jump early, like Suzaku Extreme.

A MCH with the old 60 second rotation will fit into the current sandbox just fine, just like SAM GNB and DRG with their 6 GCD combos that can't be interrupted.
Taking out satisfying and engaging gameplay from a job and condensing it to just two buttons is one thing I don't agree with even if I do understand that they do need to appeal to the majority.

I just wish Square would STOP reducing job kits to one or two buttons and just start adding complexity again.
It's frustrating seeing something you've loved so much turn into a completely other thing to appeal to a lot of people, it's like turning BlazBlue into Tekken.
It's dumb.

[Jirah]

I'm sorry, but personally I don't really see the pros of the MCH changes as if something as strict as SMN can do the phase, so to can SB MCH.

In fact, since Wildfire was actually on a 60 seconds cooldown the past expansion, Wildfire can easily be put on one of the aqueous adds, and then bursted down that way. You'll immediately be able to put on Gauss Barrel on at the beginning of the next set of Adds, and then overheat Rapidfire again on the third wave of adds. If it's not enough, the devs can easily make it so that the adds aren't immune to Heavy, so that puts a lot more gameplay in the hands of physical rdps.

And in terms of boss becoming untargetable, old MCH can easily just early Flamethrower into Overheat in bosses where they jump early, like Suzaku Extreme.

A MCH with the old 60 second rotation will fit into the current sandbox just fine, just like SAM GNB and DRG with their 6 GCD combos that can't be interrupted.
Taking out satisfying and engaging gameplay from a job and condensing it to just two buttons is one thing I don't agree with even if I do understand that they do need to appeal to the majority.

I just wish Square would STOP reducing job kits to one or two buttons and just start adding complexity again.
It's frustrating seeing something you've loved so much turn into a completely other thing to appeal to a lot of people, it's like turning BlazBlue into Tekken.
It's dumb.

it concerns me, MNK apparent 5.4 rework will be a good lead to see if the devs are still committed to trivializing the jobs. If thats the case I do Not look foward as to how they handle the other jobs in the game or allowing jobs with universal praise continue to rot. At that point i dont wish for MCH to be good again but to keep this remedial influence away from other jobs like the corona virus. 6ft away MCH!