Man & Machine: a MCH Thread

[Valence]

Within the 3 ammo rotation in Stormblood, wildfire ammo went like:

- (no initial proc) > QR (1) Split > Overheat > (0) CD > Reload (3) CD > (2) Slug > (1) Clean > (0) CD > (0) CD
- (slug proc) > QR (1) Slug > Overheat > (0) CD > Reload (3) CD > (2) CD > (1) Clean > (0) CD > (0) CD
- (clean proc) > QR (1) Split > Overheat > (0) CD > Reload (3) Clean > (2) Slug > (1) Clean > (0) CD > (0) CD

Which was aimed at maximizing the potency amount crammed inside WF, which required ammo to actually work on Clean and CD to gain that 25 potency on every ammo-ed skill. The rest of the time it could happen that with the other mid rotation reload you had already one proc ready, so an ammo overwrite was inevitable yes.

Even in HW with the 5 ammo where it sure was more awkward since... 5 ammo, it was still used as a boost under WF to get the most potency possible in conjunction with QR.

People had problems using ammo and proc priority right perhaps, but that's the same problem with RDM and DNC where overwriting stuff is also a reality. If they brought back ammo I'd honestly consider replaying that class again but I have no illusion that for whatever reason procs have been given to other classes like RDM (that even transformed acceleration into an ammo/reload tool) and DNC.

[Raikai]

Oh I agree with most of the OP's points. Here is my input:

01) Battery gauge is just a glorified cooldown meter. It always fills in a similar pace. They should get rid of it and make the Queen a cooldown itself, OR - for a better solution - Have more abilities interacting with that gauge. Here are some ideas:
a) A "Stun Gun" that brings a stun utility and eats up to 50 battery gauge for a larger duration.
b) Like I've seen in other threads, a "Defibrilator" rez that works at 50 gauge
c) "Bishop Turret" that can be deployed using the same gauge mechanics as the Queen - And it is a healing bot. This would bring a little more (non vital) utility to MCH kit

02) I'd propose to have ammo back. 6 rounds. They are the resource used in the OGCD abilities Gauss B. and Ricochet, so you can choose which one you'll be using as your OGCD. Feels weird to weave in an AoE OGCD amidst your ST rotation and sometimes it can even draw unwanted attention to you.

03) IMO they nailed it with the whole fantasy around the job. Now it really feels like a proper Machinist/Engineer with many skills themed around Edgar from FF6... But the job still has a gunner aspect to it, mainly to its rotational ABC skills and that's fine, but I think the animations there are a little too over the top. I really miss the basic version of the shots. The flashiness could be saved for everything else. Also one nitpick regarding that:
a) Spread Shot always felt a bit awkward to me, animation wise... It's a machine gun thing, but it doesn't really match the weapon. I'd love if it actually used its own weapon like Auto crossbow does. Same thing for Flamethrower.

04) Flamethrower, honestly, what's up with this ability? It's one of the best looking and satisfying to use but virtually useless! I think they should improve the potency and the increase the cooldown to balance it. And also, let your character at least turn when channeling it, to make it a little less clunky to use. Also here's the idea of giving FT its own weapon.

[Jirah]

[QUOTE=Raikai;5439088]Snip

Stun Gun while interesting and fun to have ranged stuns again, would need to be worth while perhaps a AOE? idk
DPS with zero history supporting needs no support ty
and for bishop same, MCH so far is focused just on DPS so its more likely the devs will never give it any real support

Ammo, this would add another needless step to the charged system i feel the system should have priority over added crap to it

The flashiness was earned but now MCH is just a desperate successful attempt to appeal to anyone and it lost lot of luster leeching to braindead appeal.

I honestly dont understand why FT doesnt add heat? i doubt 11 ticks of heat stationary for 60 sec would break MCH tbh then it would blend onto AC nicely, but yea. As far as potency goes its sound and isnt underpowered in any way tbh so it doesnt need a potency buff tbh it just needs to have any basic connection to its kit...

Which is MCH biggest issue being 3-4 different ideas Human-centipeded together with no care

[Jirah]

Within the 3 ammo rotation in Stormblood, wildfire ammo went like:

- (no initial proc) > QR (1) Split > Overheat > (0) CD > Reload (3) CD > (2) Slug > (1) Clean > (0) CD > (0) CD
- (slug proc) > QR (1) Slug > Overheat > (0) CD > Reload (3) CD > (2) CD > (1) Clean > (0) CD > (0) CD
- (clean proc) > QR (1) Split > Overheat > (0) CD > Reload (3) Clean > (2) Slug > (1) Clean > (0) CD > (0) CD

Which was aimed at maximizing the potency amount crammed inside WF, which required ammo to actually work on Clean and CD to gain that 25 potency on every ammo-ed skill. The rest of the time it could happen that with the other mid rotation reload you had already one proc ready, so an ammo overwrite was inevitable yes.

Even in HW with the 5 ammo where it sure was more awkward since... 5 ammo, it was still used as a boost under WF to get the most potency possible in conjunction with QR.

People had problems using ammo and proc priority right perhaps, but that's the same problem with RDM and DNC where overwriting stuff is also a reality. If they brought back ammo I'd honestly consider replaying that class again but I have no illusion that for whatever reason procs have been given to other classes like RDM (that even transformed acceleration into an ammo/reload tool) and DNC.

Hmm I didnt look into tutorials and self taught myself so i think i may have done the rotation wrong this whole time? which is odd since i cleared EX and a few Savage with my rotation.

Mine was: Hypercharge--> HS-> Gauss-> Reload (3)->Spit (2)->Slug (1)- FT->Split (Slug Proc/Clean Proc)-> reassemble-> Wildfire-> Clean shot-> Q Reload (1)-> Rapid fire-> Slug-> Rico->Clean-> Gauss-> "Heat blast" x2->Split (Wildfire expires 20k dmg usually) then Turret overload when Vulnerability debuff wares off. idk if it was optimal i just assumed it was as my DPS wasnt terrible

[Raikai]

There's also another thing that would make my experience with MCH a bit better, and that is Spread Shot, Auto xbow and Bio Blaster, much like Flamethrower, not requiring a target, since they are cone-like AoEs that irradiate from your character.

[Ayanumi]

I don't agree with anything here, it could use a slight buff and that is it.

Always amazed by the amount of people trying to redesign the job, don't like, then quit.

It isn't constructive feedback when all you talk about is what you don't like and having a fit. later.

The irony of this comment is staggering when the job literally just got reworked in a totally different direction which removed almost all of the job elements which previous MCH players enjoyed. (Turrets, ammo, procs, wildfire function, utility)
Didnt like HW and SB MCH? Then just stop crying about MCH being too rigid and complex and pick another job 4head.

[Jirah]

I don't agree with anything here, it could use a slight buff and that is it.

Always amazed by the amount of people trying to redesign the job, don't like, then quit.

It isn't constructive feedback when all you talk about is what you don't like and having a fit. later.

Giving modern MCH mains a bad name

[Payotz]

Imo, there's a lot of things wrong with MCH now.

The lack of complexity and depth, our signature skill(Wildfire) being outclassed by Drill and Air Anchor, and the loss of Midfires in our rotation which I really personally enjoyed and is extremely satisfying to pull off.

They honestly didn't put any effort in the MCH redesign in my opinion. What they did to MCH is pretty much them removing DWT, Bahamuth, Aetherflow and Phoenix from SMN and just replaced them with one button for AkhMorn, one button for Deathflare and one button for Revelation, and then called it a day.

I really don't like the trend of simplifying jobs that they're doing, but the way they did MCH is just ridiculous. They turned it from the highest skill floor job, to literally the easiest job in the game.

Another thing that I have issues with is Queen. It looks cool, it looks hype, but damn is it buggy as hell. Queen can't switch targets in E6S, Queen can kill your doll in TEA for no reason, and Queen can literally glitch out in Uplift, and by the nature of it being melee, if it does glitch for 1.5 seconds, that's you losing out on potency just because of the AI in this game.

And this is my criticism for the role in general but where the hell is our utility? We had this identity of being more of a "Utility DPS" with Palisade, Refresh and what content can we use Leg Graze, Arm Graze and Head Graze on? I was looking forward to actually using Leg Graze on E8S adds but WHOOPS SORRY IT'S IMMUNE LOOOOL.
SE literally just turned us all into a 1% Party buff and called it a day. GIVE ME BACK MY DISMANTLE and my VULN UPs.

I've played 5.0 MCH for about a year now. I gave it an honest shot, and I tried to like it. There are things that I love about it, like how satisfying RA+ Drill is and all that, but it doesn't outweigh my criticisms on the job and the role in general. I just wish that they'll fix the job and the role in the future.

Until then, I'm playing Shadow Priest.

[Jirah]

Snip

Exactly my qupis with the jobs in general, even healer and tanks suffer from this "lobotomy" theirs 101 ways to fix it but MCH...MCH isnt a simple fix or shift in DPS it needs a overhaul which sadly wont happen since the general population thinks it already had one but in rwality it lost more than it gained.

Ranged roles have suffered to this aswell "Physical ranged DPS attack foes from a distance. They excel at inflicting sustained damage, and also provide support for companions."

BRD and DNC are all hunky-dory with buffs and team support but this Information taken directly from FF14 Official site, and MCH has nothing besides "Role action" buff every 120 that literal every ranged has. So its wrong MCH should 100% support! Ranged jobs with DPS capabilities as BLM or MNK but not really isnt what ranged is all about unless they can alter the definition of a Physical ranged DPS

[ItMe]

Lotta people here ragging on it for a lack of complexity.
However, that's kind of a "glass half empty" view of it IMO.
I enjoy MCH because its rotation is simple enough that it's actually quite flexible. Regardless of what they do with MCH in the future I hope the flexibility remains.