Thread: 6.0 Red Mage speculation

Originally Posted by Rongway

Depending on spell speed, BLM has unrestricted movement for 17s-20s of every minute through two Sharpcasts, a Triple Cast, a Swiftcast, and two Xenoglossies. RDM has unrestricted movement for minimally 30s of every minute through Dualcasts.

Exactly, and thats the issue, mobile phases usually last several seconds and even if in theory RDM can move 50% of the time, only has a GCD worth of time of free movement before being forced to cast again or lose damage. At best helps with minor positioning that shouldnt be needed once you know the fight. I would like for RDM to stop being considered the "training wheels" of the caster jobs, the Rez mage meme was quite sad

17-20 seconds on row of free casts >>> 2.X seconds after each 2.X second cast.

A simple moving phase example would be on Nier final raid with the flying 4 automata mobs that cast a huge aoe in front of them and the entire raid gotta keep moving behind each one. We are speaking of 10-15 seconds of "keep moving or stop cast a spell and eat a vul stack" and not even mentioning EX or raids/savage on wich the consecuences are far nastier than on a casual 24 man raid

Moving phases ironically tend to hurt RDM the most due to his mobility being extremely conditional on making a cast to get the dual cast instant spell

Originally Posted by Bhearil

[BLM] 17-20 seconds on row of free casts >>> [RDM] 2.X seconds after each 2.X second cast.

Moving phases ironically tend to hurt RDM the most due to his mobility being extremely conditional on making a cast to get the dual cast instant spell

On top of every other spell being instant, RDM has 10.2s of movement three times every two minutes, or about 15.1s per minute, if you can stay in melee range during the first 3.1s of each movement. This is only a problem in specific fights with specific party compositions. It's not a problem in general; it's just really annoying when you do end up in one of those fights with the wrong party.

I dont think anyone is asking for complete freedom of movement (physical ranged have that and its a different can of worms), but imo the issue with RDM is that it has the illusion of movement: You can move a lot when its not actually needed and help to do small readjustments on a fight still on learning mode, but when you really gotta move for more than a couple of seconds the RDM is kinda boned unless specific circunstances where using the melee combo is an option and its avaliable on that very moment.

Every class have locked parts of the rotation so to speak but imo the RDM has reached a wall on either you concoct something new, or you just introduce "fixes" camouflaged as new skill and/or traits, and Monk went that road and we know its current state and popularity (expansion after expansion without evolving with just 1-2 new OGCD to press each XX seconds after being pruned of similar ones). I for certain im not very eager of having the very same gameplay since SB with fixes in the form of traits to issues that should have been resolved mid expansion, and things like new AOE expender after Moulinet, or Terascorch following the single target combo as new "exciting" skills

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You're describing a combo. Every combo allowance is available for 15 seconds after its prerequisite cast and is negated if one uses any other combat action. I am explicitly asking it not to be a combo, and instead be a saveable proc in the same vein as Verfire and Verstone activations, even if that proc duration may be reduced to a mere 10 seconds in compensation. (Tbf, part of that is also just because I'd really like to attach an AoE element to Verflare, Verholy, and Scorch; making those bankable would allow for some killer on-add-spawn burst.)


That is a very real concern for me, but I'd rather add new means of engagement to replace that particular contributor than necessarily fetter RDM to the rigidities that come with any single current means of difficulty. In this particular case, I'd be unwilling to sacrifice that difficulty unless there were some meaningful elemental interplay or the like to replace it, but at the same time, I want RDM to actually feel like it's actively doing RDM things more than just in the 2-6 GCDs before its melee combo and its quick reminder as to whether to hit Verflare or Verholy at that combo's end, which will likely require at least imagining RDM without that particular fetter.

I agree with this quite a bit. RDM has this illusion of being busy and tedious however, this is really just a façade that falls apart the more you play it, and it becomes much more pronounced if you main it, or play the other casters and watch as this one suffers from not enough mechanics. What's strange to me is that SMN has a genuine identity crisis, Trances, Egis, Aetherflow, ruin 4 etc... IT has so many more mechanics baked into it's job that it's taken them a staggering amount of time converting it into a coherent job that still manages to feel rather segmented. SMN feels like it's diametrically opposed to RDM in it's design where one has way too much going on, and the other has one mechanic that is only fleshed out for single target damage while being almost incomplete in all other areas. SMN has so many moving parts that it's entire mechanic is done completely independent of ruin 3 (it's most used spell) while RDM lives and dies by a gauge that the job doesn't need because it'd be better off if the melee combo was a burst combo on a 30/60 rotation as thats how it's used anyway. I personally believe taking emphasis away from the melee combo by making it just another cooldown to manage, and repurposing the job gauge to enrich the melee experience akin to something like a Fell Cleave option that you build inbetween your burst phases and expend alongside the melee combo is a strong way of allowing the job to be fleshed out, and expanding on it. Removing the rng tied to the spells and abolishing jolt 2 (as this only exist to fix an issue the job shouldn't have) would be a step in the right direction.

One thing I'd love for RDM is also Displacement being detached from Engagement (this one getting 200 potency), and having both its damage and target requirements removed, so it could purely be used as a tactical movement cooldown.

The potency gain of merely 50 from a successful Displacement is negligible at best, among the advantage of Engagement being able to be double weaved, so it's probably the safest bet to use unless Displacement would land you somewhere you'd need to go after the melee phase - which could be totally achieved by it being just a tactical ability instead.

Originally Posted by Raikai

Displacement ... target requirements removed

Please no! I abhor targetless backsteps. With Displacement I know exactly where I'll land based on my position relative to the boss, no matter what direction I'm facing. If I'm Displacing for the movement, I was probably already moving and therefore facing some direction other than directlyAtTheBoss before I pressed the Displacement button. If Displacement were targetless, I would have to stop, face target, Displace, then continue running. Removing the target requirement from Displacement increases the freedom at the cost of making it more difficult to use in the middle of a mechanic, and I don't think the difficulty of use is worth the unnecessary freedom.