6.0 Red Mage speculation

**Jkap_Goat** · 05-08-2021 05:05 AM

I really enjoy FFXI Red mage but i feel like FFXIV rdm is a downgraded honestly but thats for balance... heavily balance but i fo feel like FFXI RDM is true where it can cast lots of white and black magic spells

**WildTamarind** · 05-08-2021 05:28 AM

And another thing. Where are our water and ice spells? Lore wise we seek balance but water and ice spells we dont got. I thought the calamity that created red mages in the first place was due to an overabundance of water aether.

**Rongway** · 05-08-2021 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by WildTamarind

If bloat is a problem you can remove the unenchanted version of our melee skills and leave the enchanted omes grayed out unless sufficient mana and then those are the ones that transform when the second combo is active.

???

The base weaponskill buttons become the enchanted weaponskills when you have enough mana. They are the same buttons.

**Random0** · 05-09-2021 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by WildTamarind

And another thing. Where are our water and ice spells? Lore wise we seek balance but water and ice spells we dont got. I thought the calamity that created red mages in the first place was due to an overabundance of water aether.

Hydrophobia on the part of the early Red Mages after seeing the land flooded perhaps.

I headcanon that our Vercure and Verraise spells are water element, as it is in conjury/white magic - the whole 'healing waters' thing. The sound effects for Fleche and Contre Sixte have always sounded similar to Shiva's ice crystalizing attacks to me and the blades that are formed do have that blue/white look that is normally attributed to thaumaturgy/black magic ice spells, so those two fill in for our ice element spells.

**Axzeriuth** · 05-10-2021 09:58 AM

I like RDM the way it is currently for 1 target fights. It flows well and having the verholy/versflare then Scorch finisher just feels so satisfying (I enjoy moreso than any other finisher).

What I'd like would be a better AoE combos, both to build your mana and use it. Using AoE skills its so slow to build up mana only to use it on 1 melee skill. If it could be followed up with another AoE melee skill to activate the combo finisher like verwater or verice to replace verthunder II/veraero II and a bigger finisher to replace Impact.

Outside of that 'd like for Embolden to just give a damage boost for magic and physical attacks for the party.

**Brandedblade** · 05-11-2021 03:06 AM

Tbh I only want to see 3 things.

1. Upgrades to the Ver"element" spells that make them look more red magey (aka more reds, pinks, and flower petals)
2. Verwater and Verblizzard for the AoEs instead of Veraero/Verthunder II
3. AoE finisher that triggers after doing 3-4 AoEs (or barring that, making Verflare/holy and Scorch cleave and triggered by casting X number of Moulinets)

**Hikelos** · 05-12-2021 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by WildTamarind

And another thing. Where are our water and ice spells? Lore wise we seek balance but water and ice spells we dont got. I thought the calamity that created red mages in the first place was due to an overabundance of water aether.

Fleche and Contre-Sixte are Ice spells, as they're obviously ice swords (by the way, they use the same model as the makeshift aether sword that Alisae uses towards the end of Heavensward)
Embolden and Manafication are Water spells, you can see waves of water similar to Assize's especially on Embolden, and water orbs floating around you on Manafication.
Vercure is Earth+Water aspected, as most heals are, if memory serves right.
It makes sense for Ice spells to be the Off-GCD quick burst spells, and for Water spells to be centered around buffing.
I see people asking where the ice and water spells are quite often and idk how people don't see them?

Originally Posted by NYCLouisGamer

Why would anybody want to bring a Red Mage without their unique utility of Verraise?

Even without Verraise, RDM is currently only second to DNC in terms of raidwide buffs because of Embolden, on the condition that every other DPS is physical, and to a lesser degree that the tanks are a GNB and a WAR who only do Physical damage.
It's still your low-output high-support DPS, and Verraise only cripples it (and makes content less fun by letting you avoid learning mechanics entirely in casual content).
Little trivia about Embolden btw, Fleche and Contre-Sixte count as Physical Ranged damage, so Embolden does not actually buff 2 of your strongest spells. Very cool.

**Brandedblade** · 05-12-2021 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hikelos

snip

I agree with the idea that Fleche/Contre-Sixte are Ice Swords and Vercure/Verraise are the "Water" spells. But still? Why not? Personally I'd love to see Verwater and Verblizzard be the aoes myself just because....I have no real reason, that just seems to be the most reasonable place to throw them in without making things to bloated, just replace Veraero/Verthunder II with them.

**Hikelos** · 05-12-2021 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I agree with the idea that Fleche/Contre-Sixte are Ice Swords and -Vercure/Verraise- Manafication/Embolden are the "Water" spells. But still? Why not? Personally I'd love to see Verwater and Verblizzard be the aoes myself just because....I have no real reason, that just seems to be the most reasonable place to throw them in without making things to bloated, just replace Veraero/Verthunder II with them.

Well, if you really want to insist on this thematic inclusion, isn't it more important that the spells fit thematically with the element they use visually?
I don't really see any point in having a Ver-spell for every element just because, if they all do the same thing which is Instant damage + Mana.
In other words, it's more important the elements be distinguishable by what they do rather than just visuals. Sadly, this isn't possible with XIV's extremely strict and narrow DPS system as of the last 2 expansions, so having Ice and Water be distinguished by no cast time and buffing is as good as it's gonna get.
And not to repeat the same thing again, but Verraise isn't a water spell, it just makes no sense thematically or by the lore. It really is just overall out of place.

In HW Jobs used to be much more thematically appropriate, and even if it wasn't always straightforward or fair for everyone (MCH, AST, DRK), it was at the very least engaging and interesting, which can't be said of any job as of right now.
I really would've loved to see a 2.0 or 3.0 era version of RDM, but it got added in too late and as a result it's just this very simple 1-2 kinda thing, which doesn't really reflect how dynamic and interesting it is in most other FF games.
Still my favourite because of its Spellsword theme, but damn are they making it hard to love lately.

**Brandedblade** · 05-13-2021 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Hikelos

Well, if you really want to insist on this thematic inclusion, isn't it more important that the spells fit thematically with the element they use visually?
I don't really see any point in having a Ver-spell for every element just because, if they all do the same thing which is Instant damage + Mana.
In other words, it's more important the elements be distinguishable by what they do rather than just visuals. Sadly, this isn't possible with XIV's extremely strict and narrow DPS system as of the last 2 expansions, so having Ice and Water be distinguished by no cast time and buffing is as good as it's gonna get.
And not to repeat the same thing again, but Verraise isn't a water spell, it just makes no sense thematically or by the lore. It really is just overall out of place.

In HW Jobs used to be much more thematically appropriate, and even if it wasn't always straightforward or fair for everyone (MCH, AST, DRK), it was at the very least engaging and interesting, which can't be said of any job as of right now.
I really would've loved to see a 2.0 or 3.0 era version of RDM, but it got added in too late and as a result it's just this very simple 1-2 kinda thing, which doesn't really reflect how dynamic and interesting it is in most other FF games.
Still my favourite because of its Spellsword theme, but damn are they making it hard to love lately.

Unfortunately you are correct, meaning the only real jusitifiable reason is visual effect. Hence why I stated things the way I did. Personally I find it futile to try to compare class design now to what it was in 2.0 and 3.0, there where some things in that era that where needlessly complex for the sake of complexity.

The reason I suggest that a theoretical Verwater/Verblizzard replace the AoE spells is because the current aoe spells are basically copies of the single target spells. and adding any new type of spell might needlessly complicate what is already one of the most stable gameplay loops (#inmyopinion) so from my point of view putting them there and basically giving the AoE rotation a different flavor then the single target one seems the most logical to me.

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