Is a level skip worth it?

[AwesomeJr44]

It is if you're progressing.

It would be progressing if you're doing a dungeon, POTD, or HoH for the first time and getting to new floors. The key words here are 'over and over'. Once you've cleared that content, you'll need to play it again and again to level up, even though you've already experienced everything in that dungeon. If there was new and interesting content on every run (to at least a reasonable number of runs), then playing multiple times could be progression, but that's not the case.

Leveling isn't just about the end goal. Being max level isn't all that appealing in RPGs for many.

That is true for normal RPGs as being max level with maxed gear typically means that you can easily cheese every single boss in the game, but in an MMO like this one, there's not only level sync (and item level sync), but also content meant for players at max level. The final bosses of the other Final Fantasy games aren't meant to face maxed leveled players, but rather the average leveled player for that point in the game.
However, this game provides content like Eden raids and the Yorha raids (and the current MSQ) that can ONLY be accessed at level 80, meaning you need to be at max level to experience the end game content. So if you're the type of person who doesn't want to be at max level (not saying YOU are, but for the people that are), why would you be playing an MMO that requires you to have jobs at maximum level for certain content?
I'm working on the post-Stormblood stuff right now on my main, which requires me to be level 70 or above or I cannot even access that part of the story. What if other non-MMO RPGs started keeping you from finishing them if you didn't reach the maximum level? Would you even want to play them if you couldn't finish the story without a massive grind?

Well in your hypothetical game, there's no progression because nothing changes in gameplay. One of my favorite parts of an RPG is when I'm low level and I'm constantly experiencing a dopamine rush from rapidly unlocking new content and gameplay. It's some of the most dynamic part of an RPG.

If that's what you like, then do that. I admit that making alts and speeding through the first 15-20 levels with the Helm of Light is pretty fun, but you should at least have some higher goals for your main account, do you agree with at least that? (Your account has a lv 80 samurai in Shirogane btw so you clearly do)

[Edax]

It would be progressing if you're doing a dungeon, POTD, or HoH for the first time and getting to new floors. The key words here are 'over and over'. Once you've cleared that content, you'll need to play it again and again to level up, even though you've already experienced everything in that dungeon. If there was new and interesting content on every run (to at least a reasonable number of runs), then playing multiple times could be progression, but that's not the case.

By that logic, progression ends after you've killed your first mob at level 1 and every mob kill after that is somehow invalid. That's not how that works, you don't need to have to do something completely new every time to progress in an RPG.

That is true for normal RPGs as being max level with maxed gear typically means that you can easily cheese every single boss in the game, but in an MMO like this one, there's not only level sync (and item level sync), but also content meant for players at max level. The final bosses of the other Final Fantasy games aren't meant to face maxed leveled players, but rather the average leveled player for that point in the game.
However, this game provides content like Eden raids and the Yorha raids (and the current MSQ) that can ONLY be accessed at level 80, meaning you need to be at max level to experience the end game content. So if you're the type of person who doesn't want to be at max level (not saying YOU are, but for the people that are), why would you be playing an MMO that requires you to have jobs at maximum level for certain content?

The idea is that you unlock content as you progress. You get new stuff to do at both low levels and high levels.

If that's what you like, then do that. I admit that making alts and speeding through the first 15-20 levels with the Helm of Light is pretty fun, but you should at least have some higher goals for your main account, do you agree with at least that? (Your account has a lv 80 samurai in Shirogane btw so you clearly do)

I am leveling my other jobs.

[AwesomeJr44]

By that logic, progression ends after you've killed your first mob at level 1 and every mob kill after that is somehow invalid. That's not how that works, you don't need to have to do something completely new every time to progress in an RPG.

Grinding POTD/HoH and killing one single mob at level 1 are not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it correctly using mobs, it's like killing the same set of mobs over and over to level all the way up until 60, where you switch to a second group of mobs until 70. Of course, there's not a single legitimate leveling guide out there that tells you to farm level 1 mobs outside of your first class when at a very low level. You're not going to be grinding the level 1 mobs with alt classes the same way you do POTD or HoH.

The idea is that you unlock content as you progress. You get new stuff to do at both low levels and high levels.

The VAST majority of content you will unlock throughout the game is reachable on your first class/job. The only things an alt class unlocks is a different experience in content you already have unlocked (after a certain level when the class/job becomes interesting and only until it becomes a grind which leveling is) and class/job quests that not everyone finds enjoyable. When I did the Machinist quests up until 45, I found myself uninterested in the story of the Machinist job quests. Normally I find the story in this game enjoyable but not enough to grind out the quests for an okay story. (with some exceptions that don't include Machinist) Other than that, skipping to 70 doesn't skip any new content, just grinding on stuff you've already played.

I am leveling my other jobs.

My point still stands. You're eventually going to run out of classes to level in the lower areas of the game and will be eventually be at maximum level, or start a lower level alt character. And if there really was some other bit of content that you should to grind each class/job slowly to unlock slowly, you'll need to progress (actual progression) further in the game to get there. If being at a lower level gives you a dopamine rush, you're eventually going to need to be at max level to continue getting new content or get an alt to get that rush. And in the case where you do get an alt, my previous point applies.

[Edax]

Maybe you have a differing view on what the word 'progression' means to you, but grinding a class/job by doing the same thing over and over is not the only part of an RPG, especially not an MMO RPG.
While in single player games, its more about the journey, in MMOs, leveling is about the end goal, not how or what you do to get there. Regardless of whether or not I choose to buy the skip potion (still deciding), if there wasn't enjoyable end-game content waiting for me at the end of the grind, then why waste time/money leveling to get to that point?

Grinding POTD/HoH and killing one single mob at level 1 are not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it correctly using mobs, it's like killing the same set of mobs over and over to level all the way up until 60, where you switch to a second group of mobs until 70. Of course, there's not a single legitimate leveling guide out there that tells you to farm level 1 mobs outside of your first class when at a very low level. You're not going to be grinding the level 1 mobs with alt classes the same way you do POTD or HoH.

Why level 60? What is it specially about grinding mobs over and over again to level 60 equates to repeating a dungeon? When killing mobs, does killing a different one make all the difference to you? Repetitive action is in nearly every RPG ever made. Having to repeat an action for EXP to progress should not be a new concept to you it's been done as since RPGs were invented.

My point still stands. You're eventually going to run out of classes to level in the lower areas of the game and will be eventually be at maximum level, or start a lower level alt character. And if there really was some other bit of content that you should to grind each class/job slowly to unlock slowly, you'll need to progress (actual progression) further in the game to get there. If being at a lower level gives you a dopamine rush, you're eventually going to need to be at max level to continue getting new content or get an alt to get that rush. And in the case where you do get an alt, my previous point applies.

Yes, I get bored when progression ends. That is why I don't stick to a single game and would instead begin progression on a new RPG. I do not desire to be max level in all my jobs but I may eventually get there as a byproduct of working on all my jobs one by one.

If a game is flawed and you don't like playing it, throwing even more money at it over any other game you'd like to play is perhaps a waste of money.

[Delis]

If a game is flawed and you don't like playing it, throwing even more money at it over any other game you'd like to play is perhaps a waste of money.

Yeah but for some of us it is not a waste of money to skip the leveling. For some of us the game doesn't become fun/really start till endgame. For me Ex trials, relic grind, Savage raids is 10x more fun than leveling up and going through dungeons. That is what great about MMOs, you have plenty of options of things to do if you don't like one thing, there is plenty of other things to do.

[Edax]

Yeah but for some of us it is not a waste of money to skip the leveling. For some of us the game doesn't become fun/really start till endgame. For me Ex trials, relic grind, Savage raids is 10x more fun than leveling up and going through dungeons. That is what great about MMOs, you have plenty of options of things to do if you don't like one thing, there is plenty of other things to do.

So you pay extra money because of the flaws in the video game.

[Delis]

So you pay extra money because of the flaws in the video game.

I would not say it is a flaw though. It is working as it should and plenty of people that enjoy that part of the game and they have every right too. Just like me and others have every right to not enjoy it but enjoy other things about the game. The devs know this so they have given us an option to skip that part. Every game has flaws and has things that are enjoyable. Not everyone is going to enjoy 100% of an mmo. There is always going to be something some people like but others dislike, and there is nothing wrong with that. You can not satisfy everyone with every aspect of a game.

[AwesomeJr44]

Why level 60?

Because when you hit level 60, you swap over to HoH if you're using POTD to level. That should have been fairly obvious considering the context.

What is it specially about grinding mobs over and over again to level 60 equates to repeating a dungeon?

The act of doing something over and over without anything new to experience, and you're the one who brought up killing level 1 mobs.

Repetitive action is in nearly every RPG ever made. Having to repeat an action for EXP to progress should not be a new concept to you it's been done as since RPGs were invented.

RPG =/= MMO RPG, which I've provided enough examples of the differences to prove that point already. I'll also remind you of the point I made about needing to grind to max level in an MMO rather than average level in a normal RPG, which means the grinding is much worse in an MMO.

Yes, I get bored when progression ends.

There's no problem with this, but progression doesn't end at level 20 either. The same applies to every level in the game INCLUDING level 80.

That is why I don't stick to a single game and would instead begin progression on a new RPG. I do not desire to be max level in all my jobs but I may eventually get there as a byproduct of working on all my jobs one by one.

This is your decision and if you don't want to stick with FFXIV long-term, that's up to you. However, that isn't typical of the majority of MMO players outside of the most absolute casual of players. MMOs are meant to be played over a long period of time with leveling only being a portion of that. Don't treat your mentality as the norm because it isn't.

If a game is flawed and you don't like playing it, throwing even more money at it over any other game you'd like to play is perhaps a waste of money.

The process of leveling isn't flawed, just unenjoyable. It's supposed to be a grind so SE can get you to play longer. And more hours means more money from subscriptions. There's nothing wrong with this system, but that doesn't mean its fun for everyone who plays the game. Your argument that not liking the leveling grind means you don't like the entire game is pretty flawed though. Leveling 'progression' is only one of many aspects of the game and even if that's all YOU enjoy, that doesn't mean the rest of the game doesn't exist, nor does it render it invalid for everyone else.

[Edax]

RPG =/= MMO RPG, which I've provided enough examples of the differences to prove that point already. I'll also remind you of the point I made about needing to grind to max level in an MMO rather than average level in a normal RPG, which means the grinding is much worse in an MMO.

You don't experience endgame content in an normal MMO at average level. Investing more money to the game to not play it can be considered a waste because it's based upon the idea that the game was unenjoyable and thus of poor quality.

There's no problem with this, but progression doesn't end at level 20 either. The same applies to every level in the game INCLUDING level 80.

I didn't imply otherwise about level 20...?

This is your decision and if you don't want to stick with FFXIV long-term, that's up to you.

I do wish to stick to FFXIV long-term. With expansions, there will be more content for me to consume for years ahead. I'm in no rush nor am I monogamous to FFXIV.

However, that isn't typical of the majority of MMO players outside of the most absolute casual of players. MMOs are meant to be played over a long period of time with leveling only being a portion of that. Don't treat your mentality as the norm because it isn't.

Leveling is an important part of an MMO.

The process of leveling isn't flawed, just unenjoyable. It's supposed to be a grind so SE can get you to play longer. And more hours means more money from subscriptions. There's nothing wrong with this system, but that doesn't mean its fun for everyone who plays the game. Your argument that not liking the leveling grind means you don't like the entire game is pretty flawed though. Leveling 'progression' is only one of many aspects of the game and even if that's all YOU enjoy, that doesn't mean the rest of the game doesn't exist, nor does it render it invalid for everyone else.

You reward the game for being unenjoyable which means you aren't getting value for your money.