Dps meters

[Vickii]

Also when you finish a pvp game it tells you how much healing and damage you did, how many you killed and how many you assisted.

Since I started pvp I’ve seen my numbers gradually rise and rise. Sure I would be getting better anyway but it’s nice to look at and think ‘oh I had a bad game or oh I broke x amount of healing’. I think i was the top healer once.

And here’s the thing I wasn’t looking to see who was the worst healer or to find excuse why we lost. I’m sure some people do that but me and I assume most people are only really interested in themselves and improving.

[tdb]

I guess it largely depends on what the overall attitude of groups is. It makes sense to ask for understanding the mechanics and enough dps to beat the enrage. But everyone has bad days, and lag an other issues happen. So I fear groups would start asking for significantly more dps than is necessary to provide themselves with a cushion against those random factors. If you only want to play with other elite players, you should make a static, not put up a PF.

Of course, if someone is having a bad day, or is too drunk to play, or whatever, the polite thing to do is to leave the group and not drag the others down. Or not join in the first place, but you don't always know these things beforehand.

[ForteNightshade]

I guess it largely depends on what the overall attitude of groups is. It makes sense to ask for understanding the mechanics and enough dps to beat the enrage. But everyone has bad days, and lag an other issues happen. So I fear groups would start asking for significantly more dps than is necessary to provide themselves with a cushion against those random factors. If you only want to play with other elite players, you should make a static, not put up a PF.

Of course, if someone is having a bad day, or is too drunk to play, or whatever, the polite thing to do is to leave the group and not drag the others down. Or not join in the first place, but you don't always know these things beforehand.

Once again. Why is this a bad thing? Asking for "significantly higher DPS" isn't elitism. It's wanting faster kills and a potential to skip mechanics. You're still asking players to tolerate others who—in your own words—may be drunk. That's absurd. It's their PF. If they want to restrict it to only half-naked catgirl, not only is that their prerogative. They can kick whomever doesn't meet such a criteria. You're still essentially arguing a person is entitled to clearing content no matter what. They aren't.

Everyone has a bad day. But that isn't anyone else's concern nor are they obligated to carry you through because of it. Or rather, they shouldn't be.

[tdb]

Once again. Why is this a bad thing? Asking for "significantly higher DPS" isn't elitism. It's wanting faster kills and a potential to skip mechanics. You're still asking players to tolerate others who—in your own words—may be drunk. That's absurd. It's their PF. If they want to restrict it to only half-naked catgirl, not only is that their prerogative. They can kick whomever doesn't meet such a criteria.

It's pretty much the textbook definition of elitism. The elite raiders feel that because they are elite raiders, they are more deserving to get the loot than someone who is a merely okay raider. It's a bad thing because it will lead to segregation of the player base and discrimination. If the elites huddle with themselves, that leaves the okay players to deal with the bad ones.

You're still essentially arguing a person is entitled to clearing content no matter what. They aren't.

Everyone has a bad day. But that isn't anyone else's concern nor are they obligated to carry you through because of it. Or rather, they shouldn't be.

You're misreading me. I'm not saying that anyone should be entitled to a clear regardless of skill. I'm saying that if you can pull your weight, you should be allowed to join a party. You shouldn't be required to show 18k dps for a fight which only needs 14k to clear. If you're having a bad day, your ISP is having the lags or you're too drunk to play properly, then you should try again another time.

[Katie_Kitty]

It's a bad thing because it will lead to segregation of the player base and discrimination. If the elites huddle with themselves, that leaves the okay players to deal with the bad ones.

That's rather hypocritical, don't you think? "It's okay if I don't wanna deal with bad players, but you are not allowed to do the same!"

[tdb]

That's rather hypocritical, don't you think? "It's okay if I don't wanna deal with bad players, but you are not allowed to do the same!"

But I'm not asking you to deal with the bad players. If you can clear the fight, I'm only asking you to deal with other players who can also clear the fight. Sounds fair, no?

[ForteNightshade]

It's pretty much the textbook definition of elitism. The elite raiders feel that because they are elite raiders, they are more deserving to get the loot than someone who is a merely okay raider. It's a bad thing because it will lead to segregation of the player base and discrimination. If the elites huddle with themselves, that leaves the okay players to deal with the bad ones.

You should reread that definition then because literally the first sentence disproves your argument.

"Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others."

None of this applies to party finder. If you put up a party finder and list restriction, you aren't influencing other people because they're still capable of making their own party finder. By your logic, putting an ilvl or job restriction (i.e., no dupes) would also fall under "elitism" per your definition of the term. Which means Square Enix themselves supports elitism. Which I think we can both agree they absolutely do not. Setting a DPS restriction of say, 75% is no different than putting an ilvl restriction of 490. Except the latter is more effective.

You're misreading me. I'm not saying that anyone should be entitled to a clear regardless of skill. I'm saying that if you can pull your weight, you should be allowed to join a party. You shouldn't be required to show 18k dps for a fight which only needs 14k to clear. If you're having a bad day, your ISP is having the lags or you're too drunk to play properly, then you should try again another time.

Except that's exactly what you are doing. Why does someone have to allow people who only meet the bear minimum? What if they want to skip mechanics or clear at a specific point? For example, Conflag is arguably the most annoying mechanic. If you aim to skip it entirely, you need people with very high DPS. That 14K Samurai isn't going to cut it. Regardless, that 14k Samurai is relying on seven other players to compensate for their lack of damage. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to set their own minimum requirement in their own party? Saying they should just form/join a static is saying people in party finder should be forced to oblige whomever joins their party provided they can do the bearest of minimums. That's entitlement. You're joining their party.

[phantomr23]

You're misreading me. I'm not saying that anyone should be entitled to a clear regardless of skill. I'm saying that if you can pull your weight, you should be allowed to join a party. You shouldn't be required to show 18k dps for a fight which only needs 14k to clear. If you're having a bad day, your ISP is having the lags or you're too drunk to play properly, then you should try again another time.

There's a fact that nobody really likes to hear but is quite important - beating a Savage fight doesn't actually prove you're immensely skilled. The vast majority of fights, particularly now with easy access to i500 gear, can be scraped through by subpar players who are either barely capable of doing the mechanics or inconsistent at best. Sure, the fight itself may only demand 14k from each DPS, but if the average for a Samurai in anything above i490 is around 18k and you're not hitting that then you're simply not putting in the same amount of effort as these groups you're mentioning. You're allowed to join a party, but higher end players are under no obligation to accept somebody who isn't pushing themselves to learn in higher end content where damage objectively matters. A bad player can quite handily clear almost any fight in the game, but somebody who barely knows their class and can't keep the barest semblance of a rotation going through Dark Light Portals is very much not the same as somebody who put in the effort to learn their rotation in and out and thought deeply about how to optimise that rotation in the context of a difficult fight.

[Melichoir]

I am glad they aren't in the game.. coming from WoW I have seen the trouble they bring.

I am confused though.. if dps meters aren't allowed in the game why do I see youtubers from this game showing themselves playing while using one?

Ill bite cause why not.

The general position devs have given regarding the ToS is to use it as they need to. Meaning, yes it is against the ToS to use a parser however as long as you arent harassing anyone or 'doxxing' someone (and I use that term incredibly loosely here) to name and shame, they dont care. The second you start trash talking someone about their damage, the GMs can come in and ban hammer your butt for using one. But as long as you remain friendly and neutral about partying and dont explicitly go after people for the damage they do, they wont do anything.

The general reasoning given, btw, is what parsing is. Parsers that are in use pretty much just read your combat log and organize that data into a format you can read. You could technically do the exact same thing a parser does manually but god the effort in doing so would be ridiculous. Parsers just organize that data for you. Keep in mind, however, that some other addons will get you a ban right away. Any addon or background program that allows you to 'cheat' the fight by showing telegraphs that normally wouldnt be there or other mechanics that give you an edge to completing the fight are bannable. Since parsing is just reading your combat logs, it doesnt give you any kind of edge on beating the content.

Whether you use one or not is your own choice, but the official stance is "Dont be using it and you will get punished if we catch you using it while harassing other players."

[Seddrinth]

I am glad they aren't in the game.. coming from WoW I have seen the trouble they bring.

I am confused though.. if dps meters aren't allowed in the game why do I see youtubers from this game showing themselves playing while using one?

Dps meters are definitely allowed. Many players use them for self improvement. You just can't use it to harass others.