What would you think of the original CLASSES being expanded into full JOBS?

[Terin]

It's a pretty trivial complaint, but I definitely find it unusual that the core "classes" even still exist. After all, what does a Gladiator have to do with a Paladin, other than using a sword-and-shield?

Well, it's something I've put a lot of thought into. And frankly, I've wondered if ***PERHAPS*** it would be worth considering changing these classes (some or all) into full-fledged Jobs?

Let me use the Gladiator as an example:

THEMATICALLY speaking, there is zero correlation between a Gladiator and a Paladin. Paladins are essentially Holy Knights, whereas when I think of a "Gladiator", honestly I think of Raubaun, or even just Roman gladiators in general.

What if -- again, WHAT IF -- the Gladiator was instead treated as a completely different job?

Instead of being glued to a sword-and-board, you would instead have three difference "stances": Sword Stance, Shield Stance, and Open Stance.

Using the magic of this-is-a-video-game, each of these stances would change what you are holding in your off-hand.

In Sword stance, you literally create a copy of your sword, dual-wielding just like our boy Raubaun used to. This would understandably increase your damage-dealing potential. Some attacks might be "channeled", meaning you remain rooted in-place while delivering an onslaught of attacks.

In Shield stance, you bust out that hunk of metal on your back. But instead of being a "tanking stance", it would still be focused on dealing damage. The difference being, it would exchange some of those channeled frenzy-attacks for more stuns and defensive properties. Because you're not a tank, you're going to be fairly squishy, but Shield stance helps offset that. Maybe visually, a lot of your attacks see you bashing enemies with your shield, just to emphasize the brute force of your character.

Finally in "Open stance", you sheathe both your shield and your second sword, in favor of simply holding the one sword in your main-hand, and nothing in your off-hand. This stance would favor highly increased mobility, but also more "dirty tricks". Throwing sand in your enemies' eyes to blind or lower their accuracy, being able to "tumble" large distances to avoid attacks, maybe even being able to throw a bola to trip or slow your enemies.

Now obviously, none of this is NECESSARY for the game!

However, the reason I honestly kind of like the idea is that... well, so much of FFXIV is about nostalgia for past games in the franchise, right? And I love that stuff. But to me, my FAVORITE things in FFXIV are the things unique to itself! The Xaela, for example, are SO interesting to me, and yet the only appear in FFXIV! And I've heard that, as much as 1.0 was clearly a mess and an unsuccessful game, I've heard many people say that actually, the "classes" it had were actually pretty unique and interesting, and also very different from the "traditional Final Fantasy Jobs" they later became.

What if some of those Classes were actually fully affirmed as their own unique Jobs?

Now truthfully, I don't know enough about the other Classes and their individual Lore to make suggestions. The Lancer, for example, just SEEMS like it would be super boring. The Pugilist, on the other hand, I could totally see becoming a "Tanking job", being more of a rowdy brawler than a skilled martial artist.

But at least in the case of the Gladiator, I actually think there's enough there to constitute an entirely separate Job from the Paladin. And if so, then perhaps the Paladin would be completely unlinked from the Gladiator at all, simply unlocking it at lvl 30 (in the manner newer jobs are unlockable at higher levels without needing "core classes" leveled), making the Paladin even more of the "Holy Knight" archetype (if they so wanted to; they already fill that niche pretty much perfectly as-is).

I dunno. Just something I've been thinking a lot about, and thought it would be interesting seeing you guys' thoughts. Do you think there's merit to the idea? Some "classes" that are more interesting or more compelling than others? Maybe you even have your own ideas how you could distinguish them from the existing "jobs"?

[Roda]

Man, they can do whatever they want to smn if that means I get to keep my carbuncle buddy as an arcanist.
(Which is to say, have arcanist work like smn is now with maybe a beast carbuncle mode where your carbuncle gets hypercharged and RIPPED, and those who want smn to be a slow casting one big hit and then nothing for a while can have fun with the classic FF SMN -the second job smn characters had to actually make those characters interesting)

[Terin]

Man, they can do whatever they want to smn if that means I get to keep my carbuncle buddy as an arcanist.
(Which is to say, have arcanist work like smn is now with maybe a beast carbuncle mode where your carbuncle gets hypercharged and RIPPED, and those who want smn to be a slow casting one big hit and then nothing for a while can have fun with the classic FF SMN -the second job smn characters had to actually make those characters interesting)

Interesting! I'll admit, I kind of feel like the Arcanist/Summoner/Scholar thing is like the one instance that would potentially mess up this whole idea, lol. But I've never played ANY of them, so I can't really speak to how those would work, or how you might make them feel distinctive? And the other, like I mentioned, is the Lancer, who feels like it would be really hard to make feel unique. Unless you allowed them to wield a shield, making them a tank?

[lolicon09]

Core classes still exist because Class/Job Quests. A lot of stuff would need to be rewriten to make a change like this make sense. With the story as it is right now, how exactly a total nobody who just arrived to Eorzea is already a Sultansworn Paladin? And the same question can be asked for most, if not all, starting Jobs

[Bright-Flower]

I don't think this would really be worth the hassle compared to just making new jobs.

SE have been trying to distance SMN and SCH adn diverge them more over the expansions I doubt they want to slap on a bunch of similar scenarios to these.

And some of the base classes I feel don't really have enough to go on anyway. THM and CNJ are basically black mage and white mage lite anyway. Pugilist is very similar to monk as is, just with less of a focus on form and more of a MMA feel it seems from the way the SB monk quests compare them having Pugilists being better able to fight those trained specifically to counter monks. Lancer and archer I don't even remember having much theming or interesting lore outside of 'we use lances/bows.'

The only one I'd personally probably be interested in seeing devloped would be rogues, but that's mostly just because I find the Rogues as a group more interesting than Oboro and his ninja buddies.

[Terin]

I don't think this would really be worth the hassle compared to just making new jobs.

SE have been trying to distance SMN and SCH adn diverge them more over the expansions I doubt they want to slap on a bunch of similar scenarios to these.

And some of the base classes I feel don't really have enough to go on anyway. THM and CNJ are basically black mage and white mage lite anyway. Pugilist is very similar to monk as is, just with less of a focus on form and more of a MMA feel it seems from the way the SB monk quests compare them having Pugilists being better able to fight those trained specifically to counter monks. Lancer and archer I don't even remember having much theming or interesting lore outside of 'we use lances/bows.'

The only one I'd personally probably be interested in seeing devloped would be rogues, but that's mostly just because I find the Rogues as a group more interesting than Oboro and his ninja buddies.

Fair enough! I personally really dug the idea of a proper "Gladiator" (as probably evidenced in how much detail I had on how I might change them), but I can totally see where some things might get a little wonky.

As far as the story stuff... honestly not sure there. Maybe the story paths would just diverge at a certain point (ie. going back to the Bloodsands after unlocking Paladin has a guy wondering where you've been, and saying an old-school Gladiator arrived looking to properly train you). Just a thought!

[SenorPatty]

Fair enough! I personally really dug the idea of a proper "Gladiator" (as probably evidenced in how much detail I had on how I might change them), but I can totally see where some things might get a little wonky.

As far as the story stuff... honestly not sure there. Maybe the story paths would just diverge at a certain point (ie. going back to the Bloodsands after unlocking Paladin has a guy wondering where you've been, and saying an old-school Gladiator arrived looking to properly train you). Just a thought!

My guy, you are not alone in your thinking and its not just gladiator, for me anyways. Idc if its wishful thinking; I wish archer either stayed archer with none of the brd stuff. Maybe become Ranger/Sniper later and use crossbows with using poaching traps or deal extra dmg depending on how far you're shooting your target.

Going back to gladiator, I envision it as this colloseum style gladiator, with skills like throwing nets, javelin spike, using chains, tossing dirt (blinding your opponent). You know, like a really gritty fighter, combating his/her opponent tooth and nail.

Oh well, we can always dream...

[MoonPhaseAlpha]

Personally, I think they should get rid of classes altogether. When ARR first launched, sure I saw a use to it considering various jobs needed a certain cross class ability or level to unlock the job. But now, in the post-Shadowbringers era, I think it's just redundant.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Honestly IMO I still kind of feel like the original base classes should have all had forking paths like ACH did into SMN and SCH where they had a choice between 2 roles. But thanks to the headaches caused by the bookworms that will probably never happen. :P

[StriderShinryu]

While it's never going to happen, especially given how the devs have repeatedly brought up the back end issues caused by Summoner and Scholar using the same base, it's definitely something I would like to see. For me, I'd much rather have a pure Archer class rather than a pseudo support Bard.