What would you think of the original CLASSES being expanded into full JOBS?

[Shurrikhan]

...

Honestly, Thaumaturge still sounds like a healer, as it was in 1.x, in itself. I mean it's literally a 'miracle worker/maker'.

Warrior, meanwhile, already fills the Berserker niche, and even just deemphasizing its duality (it's two kinds of battlelusting craziness) has been hugely controversial.

How about something Norse, but with a more unique take than Viking alone? Ulfhedinn (half man, half jötunn -- "wolf-runners" / "wolf-riders") would have plenty of unique potential despite being frequently assigned axes in typical iconography (short of any potential overlap with true Lancers, at least)?

Pugilist -> Made the DPS role path Blackbelt. Designed MNK as a healer type

And therein we lose so much of the unique opportunities of such a system. Why not allow MNK to flex its outputs towards multiple purposes, as per lore and its original hyper-versatility in XIV? Rather than just trying to try to cut an aesthetic in two, limiting a would-be job into either just Healer or just Damage-Dealer, just find another appealing and distinct job that would otherwise be disallowed because of its using hand-to-hand combat -- say... Morpher, or Wildling.

[Kahnom]

Hmm...
We got Classes —> Jobs
Who knows ? In the future we might get
Jobs —> Third tier job with new form of job crystal

[Sylve]

I don't want to see the shared roots go away, but I would like to see there be a more thematic split thereafter. A bow makes sense as a weapon for a Bard, but after their split, any further bow tech should be optional and all actual Bard growth should be, well, more support- or musically-oriented.

Wouldn't it be easier to just make new Jobs themed the way you want them without tying them to existing classes? We're getting to a point where we have most fantasy weapon types present in current jobs, So unless they plan on cooking up funky new weapons for every new Job that comes along we'll run into Jobs that use the same weapon but in different ways.

As long as the way the weapon is held when drawn and used is unique enough, WHM/BLM being a good example, then sharing a weapon type wouldn't matter too much.

Hell, It'd probably help a bit in levelling gear by having a theoretical new Bow Job use Bard bows while levelling, only having a split into unique personalised weapons at the expansion's level cap. It'd save a bunch of time and effort making clones of said weapons for the new Job.
SCH/SMN and WHM/BLM could have gone that way, were it not for the jobs requiring opposite stats.
IIRC, a bunch of early level Shields were used by CNJ and THM.

[Shurrikhan]

Wouldn't it be easier to just make new Jobs themed the way you want them without tying them to existing classes?

<snip>

Hell, It'd probably help a bit in levelling gear by having a theoretical new Bow Job use Bard bows while levelling

...That is the same overlap you get from tying them to existing classes, save that you could also get, say, Ranger to level 50 by having gotten Archer to level 50 or 60, with Bard's and Ranger's experience separate thereafter as they each go off into doing entirely their own thing.

It's basically the same as allowing one to move towards their target job immediately, upon starting the game, as per most class-job progressions, but without having to level a bow-based job while it's still in its infancy (and therefore not yet particularly able to make itself distinct) twice.

That's not to say using shared classes is or is not an inherently good idea; it's just the concessions you're allowing for there are merely one or two steps fewer than what others have asked for in regards to expanded initial classes or the like.

[Terin]

Well, to be clear my goal isn't to "introduce new, eerily-similar jobs". Rather, to SEPARATE the existing Classes and Jobs, either turning the former into something more unique (like the Gladiator revamp I proposed), or just nixing them entirely.

The reason I proposed this idea, is because I remember hearing that when 1.0 first launched, the original Classes were actually quite different from what they are now. In the current game, "Classes" are literally just "Jobs that haven't acquired a Crystal yet". Which feels messy and unnecessary.

As I understood it, the Conjurer in 1.0 was way more deeply-tied to Gridania and utilizing "nature-magic". That seems quite distinct, and not only distinct from the White Mage, but also something unique to FFXIV!

The Gladiator was, again, more of a Spartan-style warrior than a "Paladin". And Archer, obviously, was purely an archer (versus Bard, which seems to have more utility/support magic).

To me, I honestly feel like they should either convert the core Classes into their own distinct Jobs, or just nix them entirely.

Of course, I probably wouldn't change our existing JOBS at all. Not unless anyone feels there are compelling reasons to (truthfully, I don't play a Bard, but I would THINK a harp would be more fitting for them, with Archers taking on the existing Bow weapons). Since Black Mage and White Mage already get 1hand and 2hand choices, I would presumably split those accordingly with the Classes.

Gladiator and Pugilist are difficult, as it would be tricky separate their "Arms" from the Jobs they normally become. Only thing I can think, is that maybe you just label them "Gladiator weapon" and "Pugilist weapon", even if they're still actually quite similar. That, or just have them shared between jobs, although that sets kind of a dangerous precedent.

Again, just kind of my thinking.

[SamSmoot]

I've only leveled NIN, and the class - job transition made no sense to me. I'd just prefer to start out at the job designation, and have new abilities added at the same overall rate. I don't even remember what my starting class was or it's abilities.

[Fynlar]

It's a pretty trivial complaint, but I definitely find it unusual that the core "classes" even still exist. After all, what does a Gladiator have to do with a Paladin, other than using a sword-and-shield?

It's just a nod to the very first Final Fantasy and its "class change" system. You likewise didn't HAVE to do it, but there was no denying that the post-change classes were overall stronger.

By the same token, back in FF1, what did a Fighter have to do with a Knight?

[Theodric]

I'm not convinced that it would ever happen, though I'd love to see the original classes expanded into full jobs. I dislike the aesthetics and theme of bard, but love the aesthetics and theme of an archer. Other MMO's had core 'RPG' classes in the game right from the very start. Yet it took a while for FFXIV to have a sword wielding DPS job.

[Canubirt]

It's just a nod to the very first Final Fantasy and its "class change" system. You likewise didn't HAVE to do it, but there was no denying that the post-change classes were overall stronger.

By the same token, back in FF1, what did a Fighter have to do with a Knight?

if that was the case it would of been better to stay as a pugilist as everyone knows in FF1 blackbelt was more powerful than its upgraded counterpart (one punch man!)

[Fynlar]

if that was the case it would of been better to stay as a pugilist as everyone knows in FF1 blackbelt was more powerful than its upgraded counterpart (one punch man!)

I wouldn't say BB was more powerful; the Master did get higher stats oriented toward its offense, but the Master's magic defense growth at level up was significantly less than the Black Belt's and this is the reason why people often think of the Master as a weaker class. But this was due to a programming oversight (many, MANY of which existed in the original version of FF1) and could be circumvented by either waiting until high/max level to class change or by just giving the Master a Ribbon to make up for the lost magic defense. From what I can tell, later releases of FF1 corrected this oversight.

It also would pretty much never be ideal to hold your entire party back from class change just because there was a BB in it anyway (because in FF1 class change affects the entire party at once; you cannot pick and choose individual members to receive it) unless you were specifically waiting until max level to min/max your party.