Do you think the Magic Knight Job is too redundant?

[Morningstar1337]

For context, the Magic Knight (aka, Rune Fencer, Spellblade and some combinations of he above) is a Job that uses magics to enchant their weapons, usually with elemental spells.

Red Mage however is a class that not only also uses a sword and elemental spells, but in this game also enchants the sword. On top of that Elemental affinities had been depreciated for a while now outside of Limited Jobs.

With all that in mind, do you think that the Magic Knight class is too redundant for implementation as a full job (and likewise that RDM is in a similar scenario as BRD being an amalgamation of two Jobs) or do you think they can be differentiated in some form?

[SenorPatty]

Well...pld and drk are also "magic knights" so I guess magic knight-the hypothetical addition of it-is redundant.

[wereotter]

I would say yes.

I see a lot of threads where people say something like "I wish we had X job" when the lore for that job or the core identity is baked into another existing one, and the only thing really different is the name it goes by. Additionally there are simply some core design aspects of jobs that exist in other games that don't work here either because the job won't fit into the paradigm of strictly tank/healer/DPS and thus the job has to becomes something different with aspects of that other job baked in (see astrologian and time mage) or because the identity of the job is baked too heavily into things that don't matter in XIV like elemental affinity (as you stated)

The act of enchanting your sword to do damage is part of the red mage gameplay in this game, and so to create another enchanted sword job would start to step on the toes of that job's identity.

[Rongway]

A Disciple of Magic who uses one of the three melee DD gear sets could be easily differentiable from RDM by being the opposite of what a RDM is: a mostly melee DD who occasionally casts ranged spells. And even though elemental damage means nothing mechanically, the various elements can still be present in their attacks by providing various effects similar to how BLM doesn't deal elemental damage but the elements have meaningful effects on their job mechanics and rotation. Bonus points if they actually make significant use of the Water element in their action set because nobody else does.

In terms of Mystic Knight in particular, one idea would be for them to have a normal 1-2-3 melee combo that does pitiable damage until it's imbued with an element via an oGCD. E.g.,

Fire Blade - Melee weaponskills deal (1.2x, 1.8x, 2.4x) damage but cost 10% MP per weaponskill
Blizzard Blade - Melee weaponskills deal 1.0x damage but the the next three weaponskills restore 20%,30%,50% MP, respectively.
Thunder Blade - Melee weaponskill chain deals 1.0x damage but apply a DoT to the target. DoT stacks up to three times, maybe.
Drain Blade - Melee weaponskills absorb some of the damage dealt as HP, but some use-limiting criteria needs to be set so this can't be kept up for more than one or two combos.

Then they would be melee DDs whose rotating elements have the MP bar going up and down in a way that feels very familiar to BLM players. And more powerful, build-up-to-these imbuements like (Burst/Flare/Flood) Blade might be Spells or Weaponskills on their own, imbuing the weapon and performing a finishing strike in one action.

[BasicBlake]

I would say depending on the role it was introduced as would affect my thoughts on the redundancy.

It’s my same thought on Geomancer vs Conjurer. As a healer it would be too redundant, but as a caster I don’t think it steps on the same toes thematically.

So if it was to be put it, let’s say, a melee dps role I think it would be just fine. It would also depend on the weapon it was given.

I don’t think it should be a DoM though.

[MirronTulaxia]

I don't think it's redundant, but as a general rule if it's a well established job I don't see any job as being redundant. Doesn't matter what job or what role, jobs cover a lot more territory than people seem to want them to.

[Marxam]

Not if they make the job play like Gabranth from dissida, use Quickenings as its magic and share maiming gear.

[WrenElessedil]

A Disciple of Magic who uses one of the three melee DD gear sets could be easily differentiable from RDM by being the opposite of what a RDM is: a mostly melee DD who occasionally casts ranged spells. And even though elemental damage means nothing mechanically, the various elements can still be present in their attacks by providing various effects similar to how BLM doesn't deal elemental damage but the elements have meaningful effects on their job mechanics and rotation. Bonus points if they actually make significant use of the Water element in their action set because nobody else does.

In terms of Mystic Knight in particular, one idea would be for them to have a normal 1-2-3 melee combo that does pitiable damage until it's imbued with an element via an oGCD. E.g.,

Fire Blade - Melee weaponskills deal (1.2x, 1.8x, 2.4x) damage but cost 10% MP per weaponskill
Blizzard Blade - Melee weaponskills deal 1.0x damage but the the next three weaponskills restore 20%,30%,50% MP, respectively.
Thunder Blade - Melee weaponskill chain deals 1.0x damage but apply a DoT to the target. DoT stacks up to three times, maybe.
Drain Blade - Melee weaponskills absorb some of the damage dealt as HP, but some use-limiting criteria needs to be set so this can't be kept up for more than one or two combos.

Then they would be melee DDs whose rotating elements have the MP bar going up and down in a way that feels very familiar to BLM players. And more powerful, build-up-to-these imbuements like (Burst/Flare/Flood) Blade might be Spells or Weaponskills on their own, imbuing the weapon and performing a finishing strike in one action.

Definitely not redundant. This pretty much sums it up.

[Shougun]

I think a melee damage dealer magic knight would be cool and not redundant since we don't have one. If you talk vaguely then sure but so is so many other things then, ranged magic caster 'so redundant'.


Golbez, Ex-Death, Sauron inspired DD magic focused knight I think would be pretty cool.

[Cetek14]

Obviously not. A bunch of attacks of PLD and DRK are magical, but its just aesthetic, not actual mechanic. We can make Mystic Knight whole rotation about different sword enchantments.
And RDM is ranged caster, its just temporary measure for people who crave real meaty spellsword job. It would be also perfect opportunity to use maiming gear for 2nd job.