Elementals and the Shroud

[JeanneOrnitier]

So here's a thought: I wonder if the viera's forests have a high concentration of elementals too.

In FF12 the viera personified and revered the forest. They could hear the Wood's voice, did as it said, and asked it for guidance. It was portrayed in a similar way to 14's conjurers and padjal. So if we ever explore more of the viera in this game I wouldn't be surprised to learn Skatay Range and Golmore Jungle have elementals as active as the Black Shroud's, it's a perfect way to translate the Green Word into this game's setting.

[ObsidianFire]

Gridania is... pretty much a PG-13 take on "Shadow Over Insmouth" by HP Lovecraft. Only it's with tree spirits instead of Great Deep Ones and people don't get born half-fish people on purpose, they get born that way by accident.

The key thing to realize about Gridania is that everyone in the Shroud basically gets no say in how they live there. The Padjal and Hearers are there to hear the Will of the Elementals and make sure people know what it is. They aren't there to tell the Elementals what the people in the Shroud want. Complicating this is that Elementals aren't human and have a very hard time telling individuals apart. So they tend towards "punish the group for the sins of the individual" logic. Which makes leaving people who don't obey the Elmentals out and about in the Shroud really dangerous. The only reason why Gridania exists is because the Elementals gave the people of Gelmora permission to build it in the first place.

For better or for worse though, the Elementals have been loosing power since the Calamity. They used to be able to keep the ruins of Amdapoor (both the city and keep) warded so people couldn't find them. Now that is no longer the case. So the Elementals probably aren't following up on people doing stuff they don't like how they used to before the Calamity. Which... actually could have some interesting implications going forwards for some parties.

What makes Gridania stand out from Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah is that... the problems it is facing are supernatural in nature. Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah's problems are entirely human in origin and therefor human when it comes to finding solutions. Gridania's problems ultimatly stem from them being in the same place as the Elementals are and can't really be fixed unless the Elementals change their minds about things for whatever reason.

[KylePearlsand]

The most interesting thing about the elementals at this point of time is how little power they have. As someone mentioned, Elementals in 1.0 were capable of causing a Treant to rampage and causing a child to be turned to stone. Another interesting thing is the elementals were also a convenient excuse for a Gridanian splinter group designed to protect the woods in secret from major threats under the excuse of being taken by woodsin in 1.0. The only groups that seemed to have any sort of authority over the elementals were the Padjali and Moogles. Even then they were only able to quell their fury for a short time. A ceremony was still needed to prevent the adventurer, Yda (Actual one as the woodsin storyline took place in a echo flashback) and Papalymo from succumbing from woodsin. Which turned out to be real due to what happened to the child.

Now they don't appear to be capable of retaliating against anyone with some exceptions. And those exceptions are rather weak attempts. The Ixali are not only able to set up logging camps in the Shroud but they were also able to desecrate trees and locations sacred to the elementals with little punishment. While they were initially punished as an Ixali was found dead early in the Gridanian storyline in 2.0 there have been examples were they gotten away with it as well such as the quest Harriers of the Hedgetree where the Ixali ambush the player after desecrating the tree. This is providing I'm not misremembering how that quest played out as it is a very early quest.

Another few notable groups that the elementals don't seem to be able to have any power over currently are the Coeurl Claw clan and the Redbellies. Both groups are poachers and naturally are threats to the ecosystem. Hey no effort by the elementals seem to have been made to put a end to either group. It's usually woodwailers, Ala Mhigan Freeswords and adventurers that end up having to deal with them.

It seems the most elementals are capable these days are command the seedkin to go on a rampage or occasionally take matters in their own hands, albiet weakly (though still dangerous to the average person) as seen in conjuerer 30.


Another thing of note is that Eurekan elementals are considerably more friendly in comparison to their Black Shroud counterparts. I'm afraid I haven't gotten far in the Eureka storyline so if there is a explanation I don't have much to go off of.

[Hazama999]

A bit tangential but I'd like some clarification on a few, if possible: are the elementals to be found throughout the world? If not, how does conjury work outside the shroud?

As I understood it, conjury is a bit of a process in the sense that you have to go through the elementals to obtain the desire effect (flinging rocks at a target or manipulating gusts of wind to a destructive effect). I always took that to be one of the key differences between base conjury and white magic: the conjurer asks whereas the white mage takes. Of course, I realize that this last point might be one hell of an oversimplication, if not outright incorrect... in which case please explain the difference to me ^^;

[Vyrerus]

A bit tangential but I'd like some clarification on a few, if possible: are the elementals to be found throughout the world? If not, how does conjury work outside the shroud?

As I understood it, conjury is a bit of a process in the sense that you have to go through the elementals to obtain the desire effect (flinging rocks at a target or manipulating gusts of wind to a destructive effect). I always took that to be one of the key differences between base conjury and white magic: the conjurer asks whereas the white mage takes. Of course, I realize that this last point might be one hell of an oversimplication, if not outright incorrect... in which case please explain the difference to me ^^;

Yes, but actually no. There are elementals that can be found everywhere, but they are not the same as The Elementals in the Black Shroud. There are elementals for every element, and this is true for The Elementals in the Shroud, but the ones in the Shroud seem to be more akin to restless nature spirits.

The ones in Eureka come out only to buff people who approach them with their blessing, and eventually blow themselves out existence. I don't remember there being very much lore on them at all.

As for Conjurers and conjury, well... not every Conjurer can hear The Elementals. Some can only hear certain elements. Others can hear them all. They had a robe color scheme system for it in 1.0, and I think it most holds true till today. All Conjury really is, is aetherial command over the elements of earth, air, and water. They use these, because they can be used to heal or to hurt without disrupting the ecosystem very much. White Magic is different in that White Mages directly manipulate the umbral aspect of a body's aether as a whole, i.e. cast Holy/Light aspected spells. It has been a really long time since I did the quest lines, but normally white magic is reserved for The Elementals chosen, the Padjal, because it's powerful and easy to abuse, as it was one of the magic schools that was abused in the War of The Magi.

[Morningstar1337]

They had a robe color scheme system for it in 1.0, and I think it most holds true till today.

What is this color scheme for future reference?

[JeanneOrnitier]

A bit tangential but I'd like some clarification on a few, if possible: are the elementals to be found throughout the world? If not, how does conjury work outside the shroud?

As I understood it, conjury is a bit of a process in the sense that you have to go through the elementals to obtain the desire effect (flinging rocks at a target or manipulating gusts of wind to a destructive effect). I always took that to be one of the key differences between base conjury and white magic: the conjurer asks whereas the white mage takes. Of course, I realize that this last point might be one hell of an oversimplication, if not outright incorrect... in which case please explain the difference to me ^^;

They are indeed found all over the world:

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/L...ouls_Gone_Wild
"If you are planning to stay a while, you might want to learn a bit about the elementals. They reside within all creation, and are the organizing principle at work throughout the world. The ancient elementals of the Twelveswood are much more powerful and wise than those from other parts of the world."

Which brings me back to my original question: do we know why they're so much more numerous and active in the Shroud?

[Enkidoh]

As far as I was aware there was never any specific meaning given to the colour of the robes worn by the hearers and CNJ npcs in the CNJ's Guild in 1.0. SE just gave the npcs outfits in default random colours, but most seemed to be dull beige similar to the starting robes a mage player started 1.0 wearing (at least, I do not recall any info stated to that effect in 1.0 anyway).

[ObsidianFire]

Elementals being found all over the world and not just the Twelveswood is why there are records of some Padjal leaving the Twelveswood. That's why the Padjal who made your soul stone died. It's also why the HQ WHM job quest had you and the other Padjal going to Dravania. There was a person there messing with Dravanian elementals to mess with the headwaters of streams that went into the Shroud eventually.

One of the consistent themes of the WHM quests has been that things outside the Shroud do affect what goes on in the Shroud. So the Padjal need to remember to look beyond their borders at times if they really want to fix problems. And leaving the Shroud was something the Elementals really didn't want the Padjal to do since it put the Padjal beyond the reach of the Shroud Elementals... who are the ones who determine who is born a Padjal and who isn't.

The Elementals in the Shroud really don't look beyond the Shroud... because "outside the shroud" isn't where they live, so anything outside the Shroud isn't their problem to fix. They are very location bound.

[Iscah]

It's also why the HQ WHM job quest had you and the other Padjal going to Dravania. There was a person there messing with Dravanian elementals to mess with the headwaters of streams that went into the Shroud eventually.

I don't recall that being about elementals - just that the Shroud elementals could sense the taint that was spreading as a result of her actions.