Housing Ownership Restrictions

[Catstab]

You got your butt handed to you so badly trying to pick apart the idea (because honestly, it's just that rock solid) that the only option you have is to point a typo and rewrite quotes.

Face it, you've lost this one.

A typo is a missed letter. You missed 4. That's not a typo.

It still stands that you think players should have rewards that they worked for taken away so that your FC and those like them can have those rewards instead. It's a bad idea. SE isn't going to take away rewards people have earned to help people that failed to earn rewards.

You're arguing against rules of the game that simply aren't going to change. We're getting new wards, that's the actual solution, not making a new problem like you're suggesting. Good luck to your FC and their 'Kurogane' house. You should let them know it's 'Shirogane' before they take the wrong teleport and miss out this time, too.

[Penthea]

SE isn't going to take away rewards people have earned

They actually have done this before. Demolition has not always been in the game. It came during HW. I remember it quite well because at the time I was in a fc that was able to get their first house because of the introduction of the demolition mechanic.

I understand that this is different as this is intended to take away housing from inactive players, and well active hoarders do not count as that, but the fact remains SE have taken houses away from people before. And like people such as yourself, these people did not break any rules, but SE changed the rules so their houses were removed if they did not meet the new requirements to keep them.

EDIT: additionally I recall that some players came back to the game and got a nasty surprise when they found that they no longer had a house. People don't tend to read patch notes or look out for warnings about a game they're currently not playing especially if it's for an extended period of time. They expected the rules of the housing system to stay the same, and well I don't blame them for it. It was the first time something like that had happened. It just shows how flawed the entire ward system is. It would be great if there was absolutely no availability issues and we could all enjoy our houses stress-free, take breaks for as long as needed and then just pick up where we left off when we play again. But unfortunately this isn't what we have. So we're here.

[Catstab]

They actually have done this before. Demolition has not always been in the game. It came during HW.

I fully support taking away the alt-houses of anyone who doesn't enter them for 45 days. Though, that's already a thing, once auto-demo is back. The major difference between that and this is that what OP is suggesting would take away your house regardless of action taken. You get to pick which ones are taken, but you can't actually stop the process like you can with auto demo. Give me a "Reclamation of grandfathered houses" process that each grandfathered player can stop simply by logging in, and you've got a deal.

"Auto-demolition is a way that houses are taken from players!" was already discussed on page 3. Thanks for the throwback.

I understood what you meant when you said "delete all of their personal houses except one" since it was self explanatory. This deletion would not be similar to auto-demolition (that which you're calling 'AFK-demolish')

1. auto-demolition already refunds 80% of what you paid for a plot. Unless you're saying that last 20% makes a difference, your system is not 'kinder'
2. auto-demolition can be stopped by logging in. Your system would take away the grandfathered houses regardless of player input. This is not 'kinder'
3. SE knew full well what it was doing when it grandfathered personal houses. They crunched the numbers, they decided that the (small) disruption to housing caused by multiple plot owners was not worth losing these players subscriptions and loyalty. They are not going to go back on this decision.

[Almagnus1]

A typo is a missed letter. You missed 4. That's not a typo.

Dylsexia FTL.

You gonna mock me about that now?

It still stands that you think players should have rewards that they worked for taken away so that your FC and those like them can have those rewards instead.

Housing =/= Reward

Knock it off with the red herring already.

SE isn't going to take away rewards people have earned to help people that failed to earn rewards.

So then I guess that the following from https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c91d884c6b6a84 never happened....

[2.0] To ensure that plots of land are not claimed and left unused, estates not accessed for extended periods of time will be automatically demolished.
Estates Subject to Demolishing
Free company housing that has not been accessed by at least one member of the company within forty-five days.
Private housing that has not been accessed by the owner within forty-five days.
Purchased plots of land upon which an estate has not been built within forty-five days.
* The count for days of inactivity will begin on the release of patch 3.1

Steps Prior to Demolishing
Thirty days of inactivity
A notification indicating that the estate is being prepared for auto-demolition will appear in the Timers interface in the Duty tab of the Main Menu

Thirty-five days of inactivity
An e-mail will be delivered to the registered e-mail addresses of all free company members, or the owner of a private estate, indicating the estate is being prepared for auto-demolition.

Forty-two days of inactivity
An e-mail will be delivered to the registered e-mail addresses of all free company members, or the owner of a private estate, indicating that the estate will be demolished automatically in three days.

Forty-five days of inactivity
The estate will be automatically demolished.

Halting Demolition
Any free company member or private housing owner entering the estate at any time prior to demolition will cancel the demolition process.
* A tenant entering a shared estate will not cancel the demolition process.

After Demolition
When an estate has been demolished, or the rights to an empty plot have been relinquished, said plot will be made available for purchase to all players on that World. The price will decrease every six hours from the time at which it is made available for purchase.

Reclaiming Gil and Items
When an estate has been demolished, gil and certain furnishings will be placed in the care of the Resident Caretaker for a fixed period of time.

Redeemable from the Resident Caretaker
・80% of the price paid for the estate grounds.
・Indoor and outdoor furnishings that are not destroyed upon removal.
・Chocobos stabled on the estate grounds.
　* Players must speak with the housing enthusiast to retrieve their chocobos.

Not Redeemable from the Resident Caretaker
・The construction permit required to build an estate.
・Furnishings destroyed upon removal.
・Housing exteriors.
・Private chambers.
・Plants in the garden that have yet to be harvested.
・Aetherial wheels that have yet to finish charging.
・Company workshops, their purchase fees, and any registered airships in the workshop.
* Players will have thirty-five days to redeem items from the resident caretaker before they are made irredeemable. Items belonging to a free company estate can only be retrieved by members with the authorization to purchase or relinquish land. Items belonging to a private estate can only be retrieved by the owner. Chocobos are not subject to the thirty-five day timer.

If SE's done it before, SE can do it again.

[Almagnus1]

Imagine whining on the forums while your FC is still without a house.

Go back to work lmao!

**Looks at the FC house in Mist**

To whom were you referring to?

[Catstab]

Housing =/= Reward

So your FC wants a beneficial incentive awarded to them as a prize for their valiant efforts in attempting to relocate to 'Kurogane.' If only there was a shorter way to refer to a beneficial incentive given as a prize to congratulate some for their efforts made...

Housing is a result of time and resources spent in game. That is what a reward is. You're the one confused.

So then I guess [auto demolition] never happened...

Again, if the process for demolishing the grandfathered houses can be stopped with a simple login, no problem. "Any free company member or private housing owner entering the estate at any time prior to demolition will cancel the demolition process." That's a pretty crucial bit there. So sure, you win, owners of alt houses will from today forward be subject to the same auto-demolition rules as the rest of us. Wait, that's already a thing.

[Almagnus1]

So your FC wants a beneficial incentive awarded to them as a prize for their valiant efforts in attempting to relocate to 'Kurogane.'

No, they don't. They're quite happy in Mist as we have a large house that's been well utilized by the FC.

The relo attempt was a miserable failure despite the efforts made by the officers because we're on Cactuar and we didn't expect that the wards the officers went to would be full by the time they all loaded in (PS4s FTL). On the bright side, all the fundraising the FC did so we could relo means we don't have to do that again for quite a while. And just because I'm mentioning a failed relo attempt doesn't mean we are entitled to anything, I'm merely pointing out that we're probably not the only FC on Cactuar that had a similar experience.

Housing is a result of time and resources spent in game. That is what a reward is.

It's amusing when you apply the same thinking to RL ("my car is a result of time and resources spent IRL. that is what a reward is.") that statement falls apart. A house is an item (or more accurately, an asset) and the sooner you can accept this truth, the better off all us will be.

Again, if the process for demolishing the grandfathered houses can be stopped with a simple login, no problem.

There are three main parts of the current problem:

1. There can be more than one personal house per server per service account, which reduces supply
2. FCs that fall below the number of people needed to create the FC retain their houses, which reduces supply
3. FFXIV has had tremendous population growth and SE is lagging with houses, which increases demand

For #1 SE screwed up when they allowed the housing rules to be as loose as they were initially with the personal houses. SE should fix this first by giving everyone teleport locations to all personal accounts owned by that service account on that server. For example, if Maley, Moe, Larry, and Curly all have a house on Cactuar, all four get a teleport location to all four houses. To further help resolve the problem, SE should turn on personal house ownership transferal for a time so that people can keep their houses if they wish to transfer them to a different service account. If someone wants to free their houses, they should get back 100% of the cost of the house instead of the usual 80%. Should someone fails to do this within that timeframe, SE should demolish the extra houses which will free them up. Notice how I'm suggesting a way for multiple house owners to keep their holdings?

The second point stems from a flaw within the FC system that most other MMOs, don't have because if a guilds/FCs/whatever falls below a certain membership threshold they are penalized and/or deleted. In FFXIV, the house ownership should be taken away after a significant warning time if the FC drops below four (which is the number of people needed to create the FC). Again, if someone wants to hold onto the FC house they just need to add a few alts and the FC will keep the house. Additional, FC house ownership should be tied to the FC itself, and should have no bearing on whether or not a service account has a house. Again, there's a way forward here for those with multiple houses to keep their house.

#3 has been hashed over numerous times and includes stuff like adding more wards, instanced housing, public gardens, and public workshops. I'm not listing the buffs because you can get some of the FC buffs from the GCs, and that's good enough for the time being.

I find it hilarious that I keep getting demonized as some entitled multi-house hating idiot, despite suggesting a way for those people who are demonizing me to keep their holdings while also fixing flaws within the system that never should have been there in the first place.

[Catstab]

1. [grandfathered personals]
2. [shell FCs]
3. [lotsa people, itty bitty living space]

1. So few accounts exist with multiple personal houses that this is not a significant contributor to the problem. The number is constantly going down, and never going up.

Adding just a single ward would be more benefit to the homeless, less work for SE, and hurt zero players. Your solution is too much work, too much damage, and produces too little result.

2. This would solve nothing.

A restriction would be put in place similar to auto demolition. "If you have fewer than 4 members for 45 days, we will disband your FC." People with shell FCs for housing would then dedicate 3 alts to roaming between FCs for one day every month and a half, and nothing changes. So, SE spends time programming a change and makes 0 additional dollars for it, and the few players this applies to spend a couple minutes a day clicking away on their FCs to keep them.

I can already hear you saying "No, no, not 45 days! Disband the FCs immediately when they hit 3 members, at least destroy their house!" Here's why that doesn't work: Now any officer who can kick a player also has permission to either destroy the house or disband the FC outright. Solutions have to be made that won't inhibit functional free companies.

3. Demand is indeed increasing! More housing should and is being created. We have "more plots" on the way, per SE. That very likely means new wards, like it has in the past.

It could also mean a pending release of Ishgard, which may be traditional wards, or may be an instanced home for everyone who completes The Firmament quest line. Level those crafters, folks.

Some of the best suggestions beyond new wards / instanced Ishgard include:

-Larger apartments. Possibly with balconies, terraces, or sunrooms for gardening

-FC workshops being tied to your GC headquarters, the same as squads currently are. This eliminates the need for 'shell' FCs except for hardcore roleplayers.


You mention that the increasing population and how to get more of them into housing gets discussed frequently. That's because it is the actual heart of the problem.

5,040 houses gives about 1,260 FCs and 3,780 players places to stay. On your average NA server you have 24,000 players. So more than 20,000 players are left to pick between apartments or nothing. It's definitely a problem. The only way to get 20,000 more houses is open 84 more wards, or give every single player in the game an instanced house and yard. Either of these is a monumental task for SE.

They're certainly doing what they can for us, but they've identified #1 on your list as a non-problem, and #2 as not easily solvable, and anyone who puts real thought into the situation will agree with those designations.

[Jojoya]

They're certainly doing what they can for us, but they've identified #1 on your list as a non-problem, and #2 as not easily solvable, and anyone who puts real thought into the situation will agree with those designations.

Grandfathered houses is a problem when it means fewer players have access to a house but it's also not something SE is likely to change because it's a small one compared to other issues.

The issue of shell FCs can also partially be solved by setting active membership requirements to unique accounts instead number of characters. I might have 6 active characters on Coeurl but they all belong to the same account. If the requirement was to have a minimum of 4 characters from unique accounts maintaining consistent membership and logging in at least once every 30-45 days, I wouldn't be able to set up those multiple shell FCs from my single account. I would have to get multiple accounts.

Obviously, there are already a few players who are happy to pay multiple subscriptions to get access to more housing. But not everyone would be willing to do it. Many of those shell FCs getting run by a single account would end up disappearing.

Both problems get solved by instanced house plots. When every player can be guaranteed a house plot regardless of how many are owned by other players, then owning multiple houses doesn't matter.

We know instanced housing works successfully in meeting player demand because of all the other MMOs that use it. You don't see players complaining "I can't get a house" in those games. Their complaints are related to what they're able to do with housing (usually items limits just like we see complaints about item limits here). If instanced housing was just as if not more stressful on server resources as the wards are like some players here want to claim, instanced housing wouldn't be as extensive as it is in those other games.

[Penthea]

1. So few accounts exist with multiple personal houses that this is not a significant contributor to the problem. The number is constantly going down, and never going up.

We have no way to know exactly at what rate these grandfathered plots fall because we don't have access to SE's internal statistics. Also there is no guarantee that the number will ever reach zero. Not every grandfathered player is going to eventually be careless with demolition timers, have unfortunate life circumstances, or quit the game.

Perhaps of those you know of and yourself included, you only have a small handful of grandfathered houses each, and this makes you feel you're being harshly targeted despite having a small impact. But there are some players who have gone very far beyond that, and others who have done it to that degree on several accounts. It's these players in particular that have made some people exceptionally angry.

Certainly in my case when I think of the major players in the issue of grandfathering I'm not thinking of someone who only has three or four houses. I'm thinking of people who have eight or more. Sure every grandfathered player is causing an issue to some degree, but there are those whose impact on other players is ludicrously high. A famous pair of players who own an entire ward are a prime example of this.

However to look at the full picture we must recognise it is not only grandfathered plots that are an issue, but also the removal of the restriction on the amount of fc houses that can be purchased. Since this restriction has been lifted players have been creating shell fcs for personal use, or for the expansion of their fc.

If this trend of turning fc purchase restriction on and off continues every time we get new wards, then this particular issue will one day end up far outpacing the issues grandfathered plots cause. I'm really curious to see what happens with this in the future. If players know by now that many fcs and players are able to increase how many houses they can own because the active restrictions are inconsistent, then SE obviously knows it too.

And honestly the above issue I mentioned is actually causing problems for people like you, because they draw more attention to players or fcs who own many plots regardless of when or how they got them.

Adding just a single ward would be more benefit to the homeless, less work for SE, and hurt zero players.

As long as the purchase restrictions on fc houses continues to get turned on and off, it's not as beneficial as it could be. But that specific issue is not related to grandfathering. It's SE making some very questionable decisions that go against some of the things they set out to fix. It's very strange. It was a completely unnecessary step backwards.

Some of the best suggestions beyond new wards / instanced Ishgard include:

-Larger apartments. Possibly with balconies, terraces, or sunrooms for gardening

Introducing this would be an excellent way to make the competition for housing fall without even needing to add any wards. If apartments were bigger and had access to all the same mechanics and features as houses, regardless of whether you are a private owner or a fc, then the amount of players unhappy with housing would very significantly fall. Some would end up no longer caring about hoarders at all.

-FC workshops being tied to your GC headquarters, the same as squads currently are. This eliminates the need for 'shell' FCs except for hardcore roleplayers.

I am not really sure what you are suggesting here. Care to elaborate? Are you suggesting workshops be tied to GCs to prevent abuse? Or to have more/different features? Or something else?

Both problems get solved by instanced house plots. When every player can be guaranteed a house plot regardless of how many are owned by other players, then owning multiple houses doesn't matter.

We know instanced housing works successfully in meeting player demand because of all the other MMOs that use it. You don't see players complaining "I can't get a house" in those games. Their complaints are related to what they're able to do with housing (usually items limits just like we see complaints about item limits here). If instanced housing was just as if not more stressful on server resources as the wards are like some players here want to claim, instanced housing wouldn't be as extensive as it is in those other games.

Ah the dream, this is the exact solution that I want above all others but for such a long time now SE have made it clear they have no intention of doing this. I don't know whether it's because the game's spaghetti code won't allow it without significant expensive changes, or they utterly fail to see the real solution to housing as a whole. Whatever the case may be, it's so disappointing to know that the likelihood of ever seeing this in the game is close to zero. The best we can realistically hope for is tweaks