Is Botting Allowed?

[Espritduo]

I wouldn't call multiple active threads with dozens to hundreds of replies a small number of complaints. And we're seeing a lot more of these threads now than in the past. Bots have not just wrecked "massive profits", they've completely taken over the markets to the point where there is no profit at all on anything you can craft. I mean, obviously people who don't craft and just want high-end stuff for nothing aren't going to complain, but that doesn't mean there isn't a serious issue here. Saying "people who don't participate in the content but want the rewards for nothing don't complain" as if that makes it acceptable is just...silly.

The primary goal for most people who craft and gather has always been to make money. If bots have made it impossible to make money crafting and gathering, then yes, they've wrecked what crafting and gathering is about for most people. I mean, I still do it, but it really doesn't feel like there's much point anymore. I got my pentamelded aesthete sets and now...I sit around and look cool in it and that's about it. I still did my traditional "make and sell one of everything" routine, and did so only using dwarven beast tribe purchased slithersand, hunt phant mats, weekly collectible white scrips for sublime solutions, and the occasional gathering foray so my overhead was quite literally zero. I still saw only tiny profits and not at all worth the effort of doing it beyond my basic one and done routine. Once these last few things sell, the only money I'll be making will be from my subs, which thankfully bots haven't destroyed (yet).

Don't get me wrong, I like crafting and gathering for it's own sake to a certain extent or I wouldn't keep up with it despite the bots. But that extent is very short and it isn't long before there's nothing to do but sit around and afk with the gear. I wish there was more fishing style content for the other non-combat classes that had big collection logs to fill out by hunting down elusive materials and crafting difficult recipes just for the sake of filling out the log and getting interesting or humorous entries. This stuff would have no use except for completing the log, just like 99% of fish, so the whole bot-infested MB side of the content would be irrelevant, and the joy of just doing the activity would be front and center.

[Liam_Harper]

Bots haven't done a thing to wreck crafting and gathering.

Do you just love arguing with me. Not even going to bother with you, I wasted my time enough in the past. Even when we agree you troll me just for the sake of disagreeing.

The primary goal for most people who craft and gather has always been to make money.

Exactly, your post sums up my thoughts perfectly. I'd also add there are things like the Pteranodon which we know for a fact players out there have botted. That makes grinding away 500 hours of your life for it far less appealing, especially when other players will look at you suspiciously and wonder if you're a craft bot. We also know they're prepped for season 2 Ishgard, so why bother with that either.

[Jojoya]

Bots have not just wrecked "massive profits", they've completely taken over the markets to the point where there is no profit at all on anything you can craft.

Except they haven't completely taken over the markets. There are still thousands of items to craft, most of which the bots aren't touching and which crafters can still profit from.

I've got a low level character I barely touch that's making over half a million gil a week right now selling off 10 different HQ items needed for level CUL 30-50 quests. If I were to spend more time on that character and sell all 70+ items for all the different class quests in that level range, I'd be making several million a week. People are lazy. They're more than happy to pay someone else to make the HQ item so they don't have to gather mats and fumble through a HQ rotation.

Players aren't just looking for crafted gear at end game. They're looking for gear for their alt jobs they're leveling but no longer have MSQ to use as a gear source. Not everyone levels through PotD (making gear irrelevant) or likes to level by farming dungeons.

And then there are the players on preferred worlds that are leveling up much faster than they're advancing through the MSQ. If you're level 54 but are only working on the level 45, where are you going to get gear your level? You haven't unlocked tomestones or the HW dungeons yet. There are no Battlecraft Suppliers with level 50+ gear in ARR zones. What's left? The marketboard for the crafted gear. A brief check of several level 50-54 weapons shows that they've been selling for 75-150k each, and some of them aren't currently listed for sale. A prime profit opportunity for the crafter willing to make them.

There absolutely are profit opportunities out there for crafters. The problem is everyone is so hung up on thinking that only end game items are worth making that they're ignoring all the other opportunities available to them. If they would stop and look, maybe they would start finding those profits again.

Do you just love arguing with me. Not even going to bother with you, I wasted my time enough in the past. Even when we agree you troll me just for the sake of disagreeing.

Disagreeing with you and presenting the reasons why I disagree is not trolling.

You're the one who has stated on repeated occasions that gil does not matter to you. Now you're saying the reason why you craft and gather is to make gil.

Well, which is it? Be consistent. Better yet, be honest with everyone including yourself. The gil clearly does matter to you or you wouldn't be so upset about market prices.

[NamidaTekika]

Square doesn't do anything about many of the gathering bots for example that are on 24/7 running timed node loops/ephemeral harvesting non-stop. You can find these bots and then watch them stay around for MONTHS.

There are for example multiple BLATANT bots on Brynhildr that I and others have reported repeatedly over the course of about 3 months, still active, still going, online 24/7. Ya, thinking Square isn't doing much.

[Espritduo]

Except they haven't completely taken over the markets. There are still thousands of items to craft, most of which the bots aren't touching and which crafters can still profit from.

Nope. At least on Mateus, every market is locked down by bots. Or should I say, one particular "baka" who is selling literally every piece of gear in the game, updated constantly to always be on top of listings. Yes thousands of listings. He's literally everywhere selling everything and trying to sell in ANY crafted market is a waste of time. Glad your server still has an MB where low level stuff sells. All it takes is one guy who wants to bot to ruin the entire server. We have another "signature" bot who purposefully crashes the current endgame market every time around by lowering prices 50-100k per undercut to ensure that endgame gear prices fall as fast and hard as possible to push legit players out quickly and efficiently. There are other botters but just these two cheaters alone have done more damage to Mateus than any other.

And honestly, to me, 500k per week is not making money. That's like, selling one Zonureskin map per day money. It's chump change. For low level players, sure 500k per week will get them slowly to whatever thing they're trying to buy, but for those of us who expect at the level of play we're at to be making that much per day, it's a waste of time. I didn't level up my crafters to 80 and fit them out with gear to be making the same money I can make selling my freebie treasure map each day. I am aware this is mostly me being used to the old levels of profit, but I don't consider anything less than a million per day to be worth my time, considering I used to make 15-20million per day.

[Jojoya]

And honestly, to me, 500k per week is not making money.

It's not making much gil to me, either. I make way more than that on my level cap characters. It's an example of how even minimal effort selling a few low level items can profit in a market you claim has no profit opportunities due to bots.

Just because you think the profit amounts are too small to be worth your personal time and effort doesn't mean the profit opportunties don't exist.

I went and looked at several random listings on the Mateus marketboard. I only found listings by the player you mentioned on about a third of what I checked. It was usually a single listing priced at least 50% above what other players had those items listed for. Maybe something happened in the past but I'm not seeing how that player is a current problem based on what I saw tonight. There were a couple of other names I saw repeated that looked far more likely to be marketboard manipulators. I still saw profit opportunities for those who were willing to work for them.

You're not going to get the community to support a request to have market botters banned when the argument is "I used to make 20 million gil a day but now I can only make 5 million a day due to the bots! It's an outrage that needs to be stopped!".

Most players think having 5 million gil is being rich and having 20 million gil at one time is a dream that will never happen. Instead of supporting you, they're more likely to respond "He he he, tough luck, you can't rip us off anymore".

I want to see the bots gone. It's not because they've ruined crafting and gathering because they haven't. It's not because I'm making less profit from selling things on the marketboard because I've got more than enough gil to buy the things I want and any profit is still profit. I'll switch what I'm selling when the profit on certain items dries up.

I want to see them gone because it's cheating. You earned your gil honestly through game play as intended. You deserve to have it. The botters did not earn their gil honestly through game play as intended. They should not have it.

No game should turn a blind eye and allow those who cheat to continue to profit. Allowing it to continue just encourages more players to cheat and that's bad news.