Tank Stances and WHY???

[SingularBanana]

The reason we still have tank stance is due to the fact that they want to make content that requires more than one tank. It's the easiest way to handle enmity. Binary solution. Either you're getting the aggro modifier or you aren't. If tanks just generated enmity naturally, while we do have tools to make sure one is more consistently MT, it would lead to problems with tank swap mechanics.

It's really not a problem, and it's not too much to ask of you as a player. Before this you had to also pay attention to and use the skills that had enmity modifiers on them several times to build sufficient enmity. If you could do that, with this same "problem" still existing(whoever said it was taken out in Stormblood has misremembered), then you can surely handle this much easier system. If you want to completely delete the responsibility of tanks, then you might as well delete tank.

As others have said, it's simply following the programming rules of all job based buffs. They are wiped on sync. Just accept this small responsibility. It's the least they've ever asked of tanks.

Well, I've been tanking in the game for years and even today there are abilities that generate more enmity than others. I know why we have tank stance - not asking for it to be removed. You've also missed the argument I made where, unlike other job-based buffs that are acquired at a time past when group content starts (level 10 with guildhests), all tanks - even those who start at 30 (DRK) or 60 (GNB) - have their tank stance available at level 10 - so again at the time when group content and party/duty finders become available.

The reason I feel it's an issue NOW where it wasn't before when it happened is because prior to Shadowbringers, tank stances weren't acquired at level 10. Going into Sastasha or Tam-Tara without tank stances happened because they didn't exist until later on. You didn't have them then, so it made sense then to disable them on a downsync when you got those dungeons. Like other abilities, it wasn't available so you couldn't use it.

I didn't ever claim this was game breaking or a deal breaker for me, it's an annoyance that I thought - prior to reading Hasrat's comments - could be simply solved. It is quite possible that it's a question of multiplier or percentage in which case going into Sastasha when sync'd down from 80 with Grit on would mean I'd have the whole place aggro'd on me from the start and wouldn't have to even attack. I concede that point.

Otherwise, if it's a simple matter of "extra enmity" or "no extra enmity" then I don't see the point of having it disable when it's literally available from the start of group content onward.

I really wish people wouldn't assume I'm just being lazy or that I feel it's too much to ask of me. I'm not. I also know I'm not the only person who has issues with this. But I'll use your argument against you, too - if you're using an MT/OT then have the OT be responsible for turning their tank stance off. Just accept that small responsibility. It's the least that could be asked of you.

[Vyrerus]

It's the least that could be asked of you.

I didn't miss anything you said, but you've clearly misunderstood what I've tried to communicate. What you seemed to be asking for was permanent tank stance, with no way to remove it. Perhaps I missed that, but that's the only way for you to never have the issue of having to remember to turn tank stance on. So what you're telling me to do doesn't apply, and even if it did, I've never quibbled about my responsibility as a tank.

[SingularBanana]

I didn't miss anything you said, but you've clearly misunderstood what I've tried to communicate. What you seemed to be asking for was permanent tank stance, with no way to remove it. Perhaps I missed that, but that's the only way for you to never have the issue of having to remember to turn tank stance on. So what you're telling me to do doesn't apply, and even if it did, I've never quibbled about my responsibility as a tank.

No, I wasn't asking for the inability to deactivate it, I'm saying it doesn't make sense that it deactivates by itself since there isn't a single instance of group-required content in the game that is of a level below where tanks receive their stances. I'm fine with having Grit or Iron Will able to be toggled, but when I sync down, it shouldn't turn off because, so far as I'm aware, the reason abilities are disabled when you downsync is that they require a level higher than what you are sync'd to.

In the case of tank stances and the duty/party finders, there isn't a single instance of group content - nowadays, that is - that is below the level at which you receive your tank stance. Ergo, I believe it's unnecessary for it to automatically disable when you are sync'd down in level since there is no point where it would be unavailable to a group.

The sense I get off of it is that when they made the decision to give all tank roles their tank stances at 10 - because they weren't all available at 10 at first - they simply didn't consider/forgot that it wouldn't need to be deactivated. I've seen it as an oversight and not intentional. I could be wrong, I probably am, but that's just how it comes across to me.

Keeping it as an activated ability is fine for cases where you DO want or need a MT/OT, but for regular light party roulettes, it's unnecessary for it to be disabled.

That's my point.

[LeonKeyh]

No, I wasn't asking for the inability to deactivate it, I'm saying it doesn't make sense that it deactivates by itself since there isn't a single instance of group-required content in the game that is of a level below where tanks receive their stances. I'm fine with having Grit or Iron Will able to be toggled, but when I sync down, it shouldn't turn off because, so far as I'm aware, the reason abilities are disabled when you downsync is that they require a level higher than what you are sync'd to.

In the case of tank stances and the duty/party finders, there isn't a single instance of group content - nowadays, that is - that is below the level at which you receive your tank stance. Ergo, I believe it's unnecessary for it to automatically disable when you are sync'd down in level since there is no point where it would be unavailable to a group.

The sense I get off of it is that when they made the decision to give all tank roles their tank stances at 10 - because they weren't all available at 10 at first - they simply didn't consider/forgot that it wouldn't need to be deactivated. I've seen it as an oversight and not intentional. I could be wrong, I probably am, but that's just how it comes across to me.

Keeping it as an activated ability is fine for cases where you DO want or need a MT/OT, but for regular light party roulettes, it's unnecessary for it to be disabled.

That's my point.

The "sync" mechanism, from a programming standpoint _isn't only used in group content_. It's used for FATES and Solo instances as well, both of which have several that are under lvl 10. So, the sync mechanism, whenever it is activated, goes through and removes all buffs that are not attained at Level 1 (i.e. the lowest level that you would sync to). That's it. They didn't create a new sync mechanism specifically for each place that you could possibly sync, they made one that does everything that it needs to do; removes all of your buffs that aren't level 1 buffs, syncs your item levels, syncs your level.

What you're asking them to do is write a new sync mechanism that is only used in DF content.

[Avyiur]

The reason for it is likely the way level sync is coded to make sure no one can go in with buffs already active. Even though tank stance only gives enmity generation (now anyway), it is still considered a buff and therefore part of this coding that makes it get turned off. Considering this affects all buffs, I do not think SE is going to go out of there way to make it so it doesn't affect tank stance.


Yes its annoying and yes it sucks when you get sync'd down and forget to turn it back on but that unfortunately is just how its coded so we don't have issues with buff bugs going in to lower level content

[QooEr]

The reason for it is likely the way level sync is coded to make sure no one can go in with buffs already active.

aetherial mimicry remains on blue mages when they level sync so not really

other buffs like food snd fc buffs also persist through level sync.

stop making excuses for not having features that sre extremely easy to implement

[Kurando]

aetherial mimicry remains on blue mages when they level sync so not really

other buffs like food snd fc buffs also persist through level sync.

stop making excuses for not having features that sre extremely easy to implement

Because all BLU actions are level 1, they don't have restrictions like all the other jobs. Once you obtain a BLU spell it's available regardless of sync (obviously you need to set it first).

[SingularBanana]

Because all BLU actions are level 1, they don't have restrictions like all the other jobs. Once you obtain a BLU spell it's available regardless of sync (obviously you need to set it first).

Except all tank stances are available prior to there being Duty Finder/Party Finder availability. The first time there's any sort of group-required content is level 10. All tank stances are available at level 10. There's no case where you will get into a duty that is below the required level for a tank stance.

[Kurando]

snip.

You've missed the point though, if you sync down for whatever reason then the stance is removed. If you are lvl 10 when you enter a duty which is lvl 10, you do not lose the stance if you have it on before you entered the duty. It's just like if I go in to a lvl 80 duty with a stance on beforehand, it won't be removed because I'm not being synced down in any way..

Also FATEs count as synced content (there are a few under lvl 10), so if you need to sync to participate in them then any stances are removed again. The exception being BLU because all actions are lvl 1, so they don't lose anything.

[SingularBanana]

You've missed the point though, if you sync down for whatever reason then the stance is removed. If you are lvl 10 when you enter a duty which is lvl 10, you do not lose the stance if you have it on before you entered the duty. It's just like if I go in to a lvl 80 duty with a stance on beforehand, it won't be removed because I'm not being synced down in any way..

Also FATEs count as synced content (there are a few under lvl 10), so if you need to sync to participate in them then any stances are removed again. The exception being BLU because all actions are lvl 1, so they don't lose anything.

BLU is an exception to everything. They're a limited class to be played on their own or with groups of themselves. They can't queue for dungeons like normal classes can or else they may be sync'd, too, so it's not a perfect comparison. I was speaking, also, specifically of group content. FATEs, even below level 10, can be solo content, but I hadn't also considered FATEs, so that's a good point. Not a perfect argument, like the BLU comparison, but decent.

I know the when of it happening, I just don't understand the why of it for group content. It did make sense when the abilities weren't available for some of the lower content, but once that was changed, I feel like them being deactivated is an oversight and not intentional.

I'm not the only tank who takes issue with this, either. It's confusing as to the why of it. Hasrat's speculation has been the best defense of it I've seen so far and has given me another possible angle from which to view the deactivation, but it still - to me and a few others I know, not to mention how many I don't know - is a minor irritation that feels like it could be easily remedied.