Thoughts from Shiva Unreal

[RyuDragnier]

The fight brought back something I've missed in FFXIV since Shiva EX, the randomness factor. Depending on RNG you could have a very easy time as a healer as she pulls out nothing but swords after the bow, a stressful time as she only pulls out the staff and you have to raidwide heal a lot, or anywhere in between. How many EX fights can we say these days hit that sweet spot where luck has as much to do with things as knowing the fight?

[Crushnight]

The fight brought back something I've missed in FFXIV since Shiva EX, the randomness factor. Depending on RNG you could have a very easy time as a healer as she pulls out nothing but swords after the bow, a stressful time as she only pulls out the staff and you have to raidwide heal a lot, or anywhere in between. How many EX fights can we say these days hit that sweet spot where luck has as much to do with things as knowing the fight?

The new Ex has this.

Smn phase into lb3 hits quite hard and have to be fast on heals, the other 3 and any combination of lb nowhere near the same level, after add phase it is random which one of the 4 phases he does before Quintuple cast.

But all that is assuming everyone doing mechanics flawlessly, yet to see a group do that XD always someone greeding Pyrtic or staying still and getting frozen breaking my flow of nuke nuke nuke



As for old cleric topic that cropped up, I saw the removal of it as a necessary evil(I hated its removal but understood why), it needed to go because it was hampering newer players and less confident players due to its clunk of turning on and off with a cd(should've just made it instant or 1s cd both ways) but also fight design prior to its removal you can see where in fights that you can pop it and be 100% safe, now this was fun to optimise for myself and I'm sure a fair few others but we were a small group to the playerbase at large and that playerbase hated the very existence of the thing because wah wah healer not healed me because Dps all that stupid cleric stance's fault(has that changed or did the ability blame just shift, the latter ofc).

Shiva Unreal highlights how much they designed fights around certain abilities and Cleric Stance is the biggest one by far, Staff leaves just enough room between double burst aoes that you can pop cleric and get DoTs on before needing to turn it off and heal, whereas Sword gives plenty of Cleric Stance room with the odd taking off to either prevent kb with shield or heal MT when needed.

Shiva Ex came out in 2.4 same patch as Final Coil, videos didn't show up until after Final Coil(smaller community back then with far less posting content) was done so those videos have people with higher ilvs also Shiva EX ilv sync was 95 most people were 110 at her release. It only looks like it hits more because you are sync closer to her min ilv rather than outgearing it on its release like most EXs.

We also treat things vastly different now than back then, healers current motto is can ogcds handle it, yes i'mma nuke this, no fine I guess I have to gcd heal but imma nuke it straight after. Back then can Whm handle it or do I as Sch need to chime in and help outside Lustrates.

[ty_taurus]

As for old cleric topic that cropped up, I saw the removal of it as a necessary evil(I hated its removal but understood why), it needed to go because it was hampering newer players and less confident players due to its clunk of turning on and off with a cd(should've just made it instant or 1s cd both ways) but also fight design prior to its removal you can see where in fights that you can pop it and be 100% safe, now this was fun to optimise for myself and I'm sure a fair few others but we were a small group to the playerbase at large and that playerbase hated the very existence of the thing because wah wah healer not healed me because Dps all that stupid cleric stance's fault(has that changed or did the ability blame just shift, the latter ofc).

Here's the thing: Cleric Stance was never intuitive. Yes, it did make you need to think about using it, and that aspect is something that's worthwhile, but it didn't do that because it was a well thought out ability. First of all, it was clunky and very much not friendly toward players with latency issues. When I was playing 2.X, I was on the PS3, and let me tell you I got screwed over several times because it didn't go off when I wanted it to, I accidentally hit it twice, or it didn't turn off when I wanted it to. Additionally, it also meant your DPS and healing tools need to be completely separate from one another. No, you can't Ruin II after you Broil to weave in a Lustrate when needed, and you wouldn't have been able to throw in that Stormblood Lord of Crowns after you cast Benefic II on the tank. At the end of the day, it was a button that existed for no other purpose than to give healers a hoop to jump through, and that just isn't intuitive design, especially now when we need to think about button bloat a lot more moving forward.

Here's my question for you, what's wrong with creating critical thinking tools that aren't clunky and actually contribute to your gameplay rather than just give you an extra button you need to press before and after DPS windows?

[Raminax]

The new Ex has this.

Smn phase into lb3 hits quite hard and have to be fast on heals, the other 3 and any combination of lb nowhere near the same level, after add phase it is random which one of the 4 phases he does before Quintuple cast.

Sort of agree, sort of disagree. The Summoner phase sucks, but I think the comparison sorta falls flat because Shiva can alternate between staff and bow until she dies (which is somewhat more intense than swords all day), while you only have to suffer through the Summoner bit once per fight. Now, Summoner > Quintuplecast > Summoner > Summoner > Summoner would make me cry if it were possible, though.

[Deceptus]

I'm not gonna pretend it was. But it was a risk/reward skill. And as you improved and learned fights, pinpointing the moment you could go cleric felt sometimes satisfying.

Even if on SCH it was just to hit Cleric, Apply Dots, Remove Cleric.

It added an element of strategy.

[Liam_Harper]

The new EX trial is pretty fun too and, hey, at least it has a heal check at the beginning. I hope to see more of this...

The new EX is fun indeed and I was happy to see Doom, especially on Normal too, but putting it right at the start shows they don't really understand the disparity between the healers. ScH and particularly AST have ample aoe oGcD's to weave into the early fight but WhM has to clip like crazy then spam several GcD's which feels rough.

[Deceptus]

As a healer, I hate the trial because one of the main strategies is just to ignore the mechanics, eat the damage and let the healer deal with it.

Works fine in a coordinated group with everyone playing their jobs well, leads to chaos and wipes in PUGs.

[Crushnight]

So this week I decided to do solo healing, with a solo tank, very manageable just gotta be prepared if she does Staff -> Bow -> Sword otherwise yea fine little extra gcd healing for staff but nothing other Ex's haven't already thrown at solo healers before.

It really just feels like old Shiva EX (was solo healing farm parties back then) XD complete with Bow macro for the people not paying attention.

Since other Unreals are probably going to follow suit I expect solo heals parties to become more of the norm going forward excluding potentially Ifrit Unreal.

[Gemina]

As a healer, I hate the trial because one of the main strategies is just to eat the damage and let the healer deal with it.

Works fine in a coordinated group with everyone playing their jobs well, leads to chaos and wipes in PUGs.

It's pretty much the go-to strategy if wipes keep happening to enrage. To be honest, this strat is for those who just can't dodge, or a party heavy in melee DPS. It actually requires less coordination. When I was in a party with a lot of melee for Hades EX who didn't resort to staying in the middle for the UFOs and still beat enrage, it was the easiest clear I ever got for that fight.

This fight in particular can and will catch a healer not familiar with the fight off guard. Even when told to prepare to heal a lot during Staff, they still underestimate how much.