Thread: SCH QOL changes for 5.35/5.4

Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I mean, a new skill appearing on a list is still a new skill. I don't think it would be more confusing. I actually think the opposite would be more likely.

"Wait I'm on SCH," says the new player, "Why do I suddenly have this SMN skill? Is my game glitched?"

VS

"Oh, look a new skill was added to my SCH."

I think it's only as much work as you want to make it, too. It could temporarily reuse the same animation as Miasma or a Logos action but edited with a different hue. They could even copy and paste some enemy skill or Logos animation in - like how Fluid Aura's animation is literally just the Water spell animation enemies use. Either of these would cut development time by a lot.

The truth of the matter, unfortunately, is that unless it's already been a planned project, any change like this which requires rebalancing a kit won't make it in time for the next patch. Everything for 5.35 is already finished and at most is just undergoing some final testing. 5.4 has already been planned during 5.3s development and is being developed now - we already know MNK is seeing a massive rework for this patch and will suck up most resources for job balancing/adjustments. The earliest we would see anything would be by 5.5 which poses a tricky situation as BLU released in 4.5 and there are rumors of BST following that example for 5.5. But WHM saw it's big buff in 4.5 so perhaps SCH could echo that with 5.5 before it gets more attention for 6.0. But by that point the ends might not justify the means with an expansion around the corner...

Well I think from a new player perspective, if they kept energy drain, bane, and miasma from arcanist it might not be so confusing, but it should definitely be changed for the next xpac. introducing a new skill with a new animation for both ED and miasma would be more of an xpac thing than a patch change imo. but either way this comes down to opinion, and I do agree with you on making smn/sch different.

As for the mid expansion planned project, you do have a point, but I also think that these SCH problems have persisted for way too long, and should be fixed as soon as possible, not only for the new players who are coming in from the free trial, but for us veterans who've had to put up with this scuffed kit for over a year now. I would hope that the devs have the resources to do something small like this, as i feel it is very important for the balance of the job during the leveling/synced process and the fun factor for new players and veterans alike.

After all, despite SCH being balanced at lv 80, it's not really balanced at lv 50 or 60 due to lack of damage and lower healing tools in comparison. lv 70 sch has excog and aetherpact which help its low heals, but without the damage to make up for that in lower content, it makes SCH weaker and overall less fun.

If SE wants me to come back to play SCH, this is my QoL/changes request :

Priority order :
1) Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination are back as abilities in the Fairy toolkit and Consolation added to the Seraph toolkit, which mean independent abilities from SCH toolkit.
2) Can cancel Dissipation activation (by clicking again on it), so you can recover you fairy sooner.
3) Return of Bane and Miasma (mono DoT) abilities.
4) Increase Summon Seraph duration to 30s and Consolation cooldown to 45s (whatever between 30s and 60s).
5) Allows the use of Aetherpact with Seraph.
6) Add Fey Blessing in the Fairy toolkit or revamp it.
7) Catalyze from Adloquium is destroyed before Galvanize.
8) Deployment Tactic can spread Recitation but its potency is reduced by 50% at least.

I would like more, but I have selected in my opinion, the most possible easier changes to implement so it would not take too much time for SE.
Hope it would reach their ears.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but there does need to be a clear distinction between what players want and what should/could happen, based on job balance. A lot of what I am reading just feels like a lot of people stating what they want, and not what they are willing to "give up" in return.

A good example is the extra DoT. Now while I would love an extra DoT how does it fit in to the overall equation. I will only be using the skills that would qualify as part of the healers DPS rotation. So skills such as Assize, Energy Drain, Earthly Star, even Aflatus Misery, will not be calculated. However, Draw will be calculated since that is meant to be a natural part of the AST DPS contribution, Divination is not. Now let's see how things stack up. Additionally, the card calculations are based on ASTs numbers since its the only constant that can be used to map out the potential for the card buffs. Since there would be other unforeseen variables in terms of DPS potential otherwise.

Let's see, at level 15, when you can enter dungeons, SCH DPS is Bio and Ruin, 200 potency over 30s plus the potential 11 (160p) Ruins for (1760p) for a grand total of 1960 potency over 30s. One potential Ruin is removed for DoT recast. But what of WHM and AST.

WHM Aero is 180 potency over 18s plus the initial 50, for 230. Now, we need to even out the numbers to map out how it compares to SCH, so we'll calculate things in 90s. So 5 (230p) Aeros (1150) plus potential Stones. In 90s there is the potential for 36, minus the 5 for Aero recast so that makes 31 (140p) Stones for (4340p) add that together for a total of 5490p in 90s for WHM. But we need to bring SCH up to 90s so 3(1960p) is 5880p in 90s. So far SCH is ahead.

And for AST. Combust is 240 over 18s. Bringing that up to 90s is 5 (240p) Combust (1200) plus Malefic 31 (150p) which is (4650p) for a grand total of 5850p in 90s. Slightly weaker than SCH but still good. Looks like at level 15 WHM is the weakest with 90 less potency over SCH.

But let's calculate this at the other levels. At level 30, SCH is Bio II and Ruin, using the same formula, (400p)+11(160p)=2160p x 3 = 6480p in 90s WHM is Aero and Stone II, so. 5(180p +50p)+31(200p)=7350p in 90s. We can see that by 30 WHM has pulled ahead a lot. But what of AST. Well at 30 AST still uses the same spells, but they do get cards, so that does add something. Over 90s they'd get 3 cards. With a potential high of 6% each, so 18% total. Applying that to their initial numbers, we'd get (5850p)+18%(5850p)=6903p in 90s. Which beats SCH again, ouch. So at level 30 SCH falls behind AST output by about 400p and WHM by about 900p

But what of level 50? SCHs skills don't change so they remain at 6480p in 90s. WHM gains Aero 2, so calculating that we get, 5(360p+60p)+31(200p)= 8300p in 90s. As for AST they gain Combust II, and have access to a higher level 8% card. So their damage fluctuates a bit. First the base is (500p)+11(150p)=2150p x 3 =6450p, (6450p)+18%(6450p)=7611p, (6450p)+24%(6450p)=7998p. So their damage is between 7611p and 7998p. So its clear that at level 50 SCH is lacking in terms of DPS, but what if Miasma returned? That would be an additional (3)(220p)= 660p. Adding that in at each stage we'd get 6540p at 15, and 7140p at 30/50. There damage might feel OP at 15, but then normal at 30, but then weak at 50.

So it does look like adding in the extra DoT seems feasible. But that's only the first 50 levels what about each cap there after?

Level 60
SCH: (400p)+11(240p)=3040p x 3 = 9120p in 90s
WHM: 5(360p+60p)+31(240p) = 9540p in 90s
AST: (500p)+11(170p)=2370p x 3 = 7110p in 90s flat, fluctuates between (7110p)+18%(7110p) and (7110p)+24%(7110p) or 8390p and 8816p

Level 70
SCH: (400p)+11(260p)=3260p x 3 = 9780p in 90s
WHM: 5(360p+60p)+31(280p) = 10,780p in 90s
AST: (500p)+11(210p)=2810p x 3 = 8430p in 90s flat, fluctuates between (8430p)+18%(8430p) and (8430p)+24%(8430p) or 9947p and 10,453p

Level 80 (all the Dots even out here, but so the numbers don't suddenly seem small I'll keep the 90s)
SCH: (600p)+11(280p)=3680p x 3 = 11,040p in 90s
WHM: (600p+120p)+11(300p)= 4020p x 3 = 12,060 in 90s
AST: (600p)+11(250p)=3350p x 3 = 10,050 in 90s flat, fluctuates between (10,050p)+18%(10,050p) and (10,050p)+24%(10,050p) or 11,859 and 12,462p.

What all this amounts to is it shows how SCH fluctuates in power compared to the other healers. They are decent at level 15 and 30, but weaker by far at 50. They get a resurgence at 60, but fall again at 70 and 80. All this shows that adding in another DoT might be feasible but what if we added Miasma back in? No upgrades or anything (how lame, lol) 3(220p)=660p

Level 15: 5880p+660p=6540p [WHM: 5490p] [AST: 5850p]
Level 30: 6480p+660p=7140p [WHM: 7350p] [AST: 5850p-6903p]
Level 50: 6480p+660p=7140p [WHM: 8300p] [AST: 6450p-7611p/7998p]
Level 60: 9120p+660p=9780p [WHM: 9540p] [AST: 7110p-8390p/8816p]
Level 70: 9780p+660p=10,440p [WHM: 10,780p] [AST: 8430p-9947p/10,453p]
Level 80: 11,040p+660p= 11,700p [WHM: 12,060p] [AST: 10,050p-11,859p/12,462p]

All this data basically does show how an extra DoT could help, could.. But what isn't considered is the Ruins/Broils that would be lost for casting the extra DoT. You'd lose 3 casts, and if you calculate that, we'll use Miasma III as an upgrade filler for 80 at least, you'd get (600p)+(495p)+8(280p)= 3335p x 3 =10,005p which is worse than the 11,040p with just 1 DoT. Maybe another DoT isn't the solution we think it'll be.

EDIT: I noticed a slight miscalculation I made when I wrote my equation for adding in Miasma III. While it is true you lose 3 Ruin/Broil casts, I subtracted that number from the staring values, which are singular, not tripled,, so I should of only subtracted 1 from the initial equation. The new equation would look like this, (600p)+(495p)+10(280p)=3895p x 3 = 11,685p in 90s. And arguably that is a nice improvement. I apologize for the confusion. My statement still stands regarding how another DoT might not be the actual answer, especially since precise calculations are difficult because of other damaging skills involved. But I can't present a side with misguided information.

I'm not saying wanting things is bad. But we do need to consider how they play into the grand scheme of things. SCH does need some help, but sometimes what we think might help is only superficial, like another DoT. Sure, it would help make SCH feel "busier" but it doesn't really help the damage.

Originally Posted by bundythenoob

Interesting calculations there. I do agree that SCH needs more than another DOT, such as maybe bringing back shadowflare as an offencive Fairy ability, but I think that those kinds of changes would qualify more as straight buffs that would probably come for the next expac, and I think SCH could use the extra dot and bane atm, just to make the job perform a little smoother for the remainder of SHB. thanks for your input though, its was really insightful [:

Thank you for your comment. I noticed a mistake I made in my later calculations. Hopefully, it doesn't take away from the actual meaning I was trying to get across though, which you seemed to have gotten, so thank you for that.

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

1. I cant see happening, I understand why it sucks from a QoL standpoint but SE likely wants ogcd healing to always incur a cost, and sch having so much costless healing was a reason for how powerful it was in the past few expansions.

It was the purpose of the Fairy, yes.
The issue is now with the adding of new oGCD + those from fairies, we have so many that we have to sacrifice too much dps with Ruin II and even skipping oGCD healing because of that (like Fey Blessing).
AST has not this problem with the 1,5s cast time of Maleficent.

And let's be honest, managing our dps rotation while being able to use oGCD from fairy, it was very dynamic, interesting and fun.
She was like our partner.
The feeling is not the same anymore