Shiva Unreal, why not just change the way min ilvl works?

[Hasrat]

Because doing it this way allows them to create an extra little minigame around the content?

Tweaking the system to allow the same challenge within its current limitations only really benefits the players bored and looking for a challenge. This seems like a way to get far more players interested in participating.

[GeraldineKerla]

Because doing it this way allows them to create an extra little minigame around the content?

Tweaking the system to allow the same challenge within its current limitations only really benefits the players bored and looking for a challenge. This seems like a way to get far more players interested in participating.

Honestly, you could make it a minigame without implementing it the current way it is, through the min ilvl system. It would work functionally identically but not be 1 primal release every few months.

[GeraldineKerla]

Substats already are in effect at the minimum ilvl.
They already have values correlating to the gear we had at the time, that gear didn't just stop existing.
Balancing Nightmare is not true. They don't make a significant enough difference to make classes "impossible to balance", you're WAY overstating the effects of substats in lower content.

If job damage output is so vastly different at 50 than it is right now, you can do literally what I said, put an invisible %buff/debuff on the class at that level when doing minimum ilvl content to retain some semblance of balance.
Its not like its actually difficult to figure out how much damage a job would do at those levels to a point that would be considered reasonable levels of balancing. If a job like RDM is doing 200 more dps than NIN in 2.4 Shiva, nerf it by like 12%.
Its not actually important or breaking anyone's immersion when old min ilvl job balance isn't literally perfect.

Scaling the substats down or even damage output down is something they only have to do once per set of level cap, and not even to a perfect degree. The "balancing nightmare" here is blown way out of proportion. You literally do not have to adjust all of these abilities, you only have to adjust the actual output of a given class. There aren't any abilities we have that trivialize the content more than we are going to trivialize it anyway with it at level 80.

[Tint]

If job damage output is so vastly different at 50 than it is right now, you can do literally what I said, put an invisible %buff/debuff on the class at that level when doing minimum ilvl content to retain some semblance of balance.
Its not like its actually difficult to figure out how much damage a job would do at those levels to a point that would be considered reasonable levels of balancing. If a job like RDM is doing 200 more dps than NIN in 2.4 Shiva, nerf it by like 12%.
Its not actually important or breaking anyone's immersion when old min ilvl job balance isn't literally perfect.

And when the next set of skills get released and jobs get stronger again they have to scale every single fight in the game again?

Also having only 1 primal at a time available ensures that people don't just do Garuda ex from now till eternity to get their rewards. They have to limit it to a specific fight, not only to prevent us from doing the easiest fight only, but also to make group building easier.

[GeraldineKerla]

And when the next set of skills get released and jobs get stronger again they have to scale every single fight in the game again?

Also having only 1 primal at a time available ensures that people don't just do Garuda ex from now till eternity to get their rewards. They have to limit it to a specific fight, not only to prevent us from doing the easiest fight only, but also to make group building easier.

Not every fight. Every expac, once every 2 years. And by that I mean, you scale the max and it automatically works downwards just fine from that. You don't have to scale every single fight just like they don't have to scale every single fight right now. They design it so that every job can play it, and then they make the DPS checks. The DPS checks have already been made, and the content is already designed so that you can do all of it, so all they need to do is attach it to a min ilvl system.

Also, you can just make 1 primal at a time give the reward that everybody shares, but with forced scaling. You only have to ensure that the dps differences in a single fight aren't too noteworthy, like Shiva, to be sure that it'll be reasonably balanced in essentially every other fight. The stat caps on each piece of gear are already there, so they reduce the main stat and main stat scaling to it's original level, then lower if its deemed too easy compared to release.

[Fynlar]

It's presumably because they wanted this to be content accessible to all level 80s, not just those caught up on "current" endgame levels.

The fact remains that item level sync on “new” content is dumb. People claim it’s to allow new players to join in when a new player wouldn’t clear this fight in a month of Sunday’s. Stop syncing content, make it aimed at the current item level tier

That really isn't the case. This fight isn't as difficult as you make it out to be (because Shiva EX was originally never that difficult either as far as extremes go, particularly not for being right after Ramuh) and it is very conceivable for someone to not be caught up to "current" endgame levels but still have done the original Shiva EX often enough to be very familiar with the fight's mechanics. Aside from all the numbers being scaled up, with greater emphasis placed on Shiva's HP because it's taking into account our greater proportional damage output with all our newer toys compared to what we had at 50... the fight is still ultimately a carbon copy of Shiva EX. Anyone that had lasting experience with Shiva EX will do just fine here.

It doesn't really matter what the item level cap is as far as fight difficulty goes; people familiar with Shiva EX are going to have a far easier time, and the people that aren't will have some learning to do. The same would apply even if the item level of the fight was more current.

[GeraldineKerla]

It's presumably because they wanted this to be content accessible to all level 80s, not just because caught up on "current" endgame levels.

Scaling it to how the min ilvl system works would make it *more* accessible as level 60s could participate, albeit missing skills?
Though if you can enter the fight then you have all the skills required to beat it regardless.

I agree with your comment on the item level sync, it honestly doesn't matter that its stuck at i435. Its not meant to be a serious progression fight to gain ilvls from beating.

[ScarecrowJames]

Ima have to skip this "new" content. I've done Shiva enough at lv 50, 60 and even 70. Synced and not synced then I can throw Blue Mage in there. I just don't feel the rewards are enough to justify me running a fight I've ran so much. A Cait Sith ribbon doesn't really speak to me as a great reward and neither does a Horse that looks like a reused asset of horses I have plenty of. I can only Imagine them re doing Ifrit as Unreal where most of his mechanics are just flat out boring or even Titan. Feels like someone missed the purpose of Edengate. Its kinda Unreal how this is even considered as new content.

[Roda]

If I'm reading this right, and as someone who has played games that sync the item levels but not the skills, no thankyou. People with their whole kit will either be way more overpowered than those without, or scaled so that they are either weaker, or at least at the same dps but required to put in way more effort than someone with half the buttons to press. None of those results are that fun, and I'd rather everyone who can participate in a piece of content be allowed to be on the same footing as everyone else (minor differences in gear being the exception).

[linayar]

If I'm reading this right, and as someone who has played games that sync the item levels but not the skills, no thankyou. People with their whole kit will either be way more overpowered than those without, or scaled so that they are either weaker, or at least at the same dps but required to put in way more effort than someone with half the buttons to press. None of those results are that fun, and I'd rather everyone who can participate in a piece of content be allowed to be on the same footing as everyone else (minor differences in gear being the exception).

This is a level 80 content. Everyone has their whole (level 80) kit.

EDIT: OH, you're talking about the proposal on this thread...