Speed run instances are killing PLD

[Brannigan]

If SE intends Warrior to tank, they need give it Taunt and nerf its damage/AoE output.

Warrior has access to provoke, flash, and most of the best defensive abilities in the game. Taunt would barely help them and I wouldn't even waste an action slot on it given that their alternatives are so good.

They don't need to bring Warrior down, they need to bring Paladin up to its level. If Paladin and Dragoon were brought up a little bit I think class balance would be pretty damn good (maybe dragoon is okay right now? I haven't seen one perform well compared to monk).

[SwordCoheir]

Why are people so against leveling up all their jobs so they can actually benefit from the uniqueness of the Armory system.

I think it has more to do with not everyone has the time/ability to level all the jobs. I've got some friends who can only get on during LS event times when they can actually get on. Of course my shell is supportive and allows them to do their own thing when they haven't had time to do stuff, but they would much rather support the shell and hang with friends rather than go level with boring a PuG with people they don't know. I know there's the argument you can support the shell by being more versatile, but you have to consider happy player vs. unhappy player. Happy players are going to want to keep playing, unhappy players (often those who are forced/told what to do for the sake of progress) get bored of things and might pop on occasionally for new patches just to disappear again for another 2 months which leaves you one man down for events. The easiest solution to remedy that (not necessarily the easiest to fix mind you) would be to make content doable by casual players and make it where all jobs would be equally desired for a position outside of the basic needs of a group (IE:Healer,tank,etc.)

[syntaxlies]

If SE intends Warrior to tank, they need give it Taunt and nerf its damage/AoE output.

war is right were it needs to be, its a dd tank. the problem is the damage mitigation tank isnt good enough at mitigating damage as it should be. Dont break war to fix pld, just fix pld.

Also War has far superior tanking skills then pld so im not sure if taunt would make a difference.

[Maxthunder]

As I see it and Im sure a lotta people would agree stuff like moogle and these instance dungeons should have a point system. Basicly you go in you kill mobs and boss and just finish the dungeon. Now points can be awarded based on a lot of conditions. Now said points are there by saved up for what ever reward the player wants, and I am not talking about a crap load of points at once but something that still takes time to aquire. Its been awhile so I can remember exactly which endgame had it think it was salvage, but a point system like that would help every1. See regardless if its a shitty drop rate or a point system, those players who want to get everything in a week or 2 would still get what they want as soon as they can. It would still be a time sync so if SE went with the point system it would be alotta better than now, by reason of wow i need 25k points and i now have 15k points woot 10k to go and i get (insert gear) whatever.

Points could be given for time it took to complete, how many mobs was defeated etc. Also on a furthure note rare mobs could be added to add a challenge as well as to earn extra points. SE is taking the easy way by makeing content that is the way it is now. Now instead of people argueing yes and or no about whatever lets turn that anger or what not towards those responsible and get something done about it.

[DeadRiser]

Why are people so against leveling up all their jobs so they can actually benefit from the uniqueness of the Armory system. Every update has had their star classes. 1.18 had ARC and GLA and like always both mages for darkhold. 1.19 brought Ifrit with LNC MRD and CON not so much THM though. 1.20 had moogle which phased out MRD for a little bit and people were using gla's again, back to ARC and of course THM and CON. Now we got 1.21 and I think EVERY single class has its use. We haven't seen PGL get this much action since 1.17 when they were tanking Ureaus. This is the most balance I've seen yet. Sure PLD doesnt get to shine as much as he did in the other patches. So use another class!!! Its not like you gotta start a new character. During my linkshell speed runs i personally sometimes switch jobs 2-3 times during the run. WHAT OTHER GAME CAN U GO FROM MAGE TO MELEE IN 10 SECONDS!?

Or you could just cry and post that you only want to play PLD and nothing else...

A game should NEVER make one class/job the best for one patch and crap for the next. Every patch except Ifrit has made archer the crowning class to take. Do you not see something wrong with this? When you make something the best class of the patch, everyone is going to class stack it and make having class/job diversity pointless when it can be beaten with 2 healers, one tank, and 5 of one other.

It's not crying when a person prefers to only play one class/job compared to the others. It's a personal preference.

[elreed]

i prefer the way they did toto rak, they could do something similar but instead of finishing the dungeon when killing one of the three bosses i prefer killing all 3 to get the 5th chest, might take longer to clear but at least will help getting different setups, they can even make bosses more difficult as you kill em, 1st normal, 2nd double difficulty, 3rd tripple difficulty, idk or add more skills to those or in a better case make different bosses not just in name, of course if you're doing all that the drop rate should/must be upgraded according with the number of boss killed.

The best way to do it is make 2 rooms for boss pop, and a third room that is unlocked after beating the 2 boss, give 2 chest one chest per room and 3 in the last room (those 3 will spawn if all the puzzles were solved if not just 1) that would be a good time sink

[ejiboo]

you guys are dumb.

the armory system's big perk was changing class mid combat, something which i wish they would expand on even further and let you change class, somehow, actually in combat.

paladin is just a piece of shit as is-it's nothing to do with the dungeons. they can't hold hate like a WAR, do damage like a WAR or take damage like a WAR and it's inferior in every way. they'll fix it...eventually.

[fusional]

soooo you guys want to make the game even easier?

sigh

[fusional]

They don't need to bring Warrior down, they need to bring Paladin up to its level.

yes. it's all about enmity. my LS uses warrior tanks simply because their enmity generation is much faster and higher than that of paladins, and we *need that* when our monks and blms are doing 145-160 dps on mistress.

sure, the extra damage a warrior brings to the table is nice, and that extra damage is part of what makes their enmity generation better- but that just means square needs to adjust paladin's enmity generation to comparable levels. the recent changes were a good boost, but still not enough. almost makes me think they need to give paladin some kind of native enmity aura or something.

If Paladin and Dragoon were brought up a little bit I think class balance would be pretty damn good (maybe dragoon is okay right now? I haven't seen one perform well compared to monk).

that's the thing. class balance is extremely good right now other than the pld vs. war issue.

monk is great single target vs magic weak mobs, good single target otherwise, poor aoe. warrior is great aoe, average single target. bard is decent single target, decent aoe, not great at anything but has party buffs. blm is great single target and great aoe, but in fights longer than 3 mins they're going to start to see a dramatic drop off as MP becomes an issue (especially vs. corselet melee). dragoon is pretty good single target, pretty good aoe (second only to war).

sure, most speed run groups mix and match to best deal with each encounter, but most speed run groups are also finishing in about 18-20 minutes by doing so. that still leaves 5-7 minutes or more on the clock. and other LSs (DoW, etc) have already proven it's entirely easy to roll through to a 5 chest clear without stacking jobs, and without changing jobs at all.

the community is partially to blame, as always. but the bottom line is people are mostly just making excuses. everything is pretty balanced. speed runs are easy without stacking jobs or maintaining rigid job preference. everyone just needs to suck it up and play better.

the end.

[myoozek]

Agreed with the sentiment expressed by some in this thread that the community is too needy and under-appreciative of the efforts to balance the game, which I think are balancing out fairly well. It'll take some time to perfect (especially with SE catering to such an audience).

Considering AV and CC are currently what defines our 'end game', I'm slightly discouraged to see it defeated so easily, especially with the optimized stacked party being so mainstream. Understandably, players who've done 100+ runs have a right to complain about a shitty drop rate, but as cited earlier, that's a different story.

The fact that so many parties participating in these events are so inclined for a stacked party, to me, indicates their interest to be not in the challenge of fighting, or the joys of such challenge, but almost solely interested in the drops alone. That is to say, if the quickest route to (me) and (item) is (strat), then let's do that. If you find yourself surrounded by people not wanting to experiment with different classes and jobs, (something I salute DoW for in posting that video people have mentioned) then find another group.

I firmly believe class stacking is a combination of two things:
•Players wanting the quickest and easiest method of winning (and not experimenting) - a result of watching how everyone else does it and flocking to that particularly strat religiously and,
•Players sucking at their jobs