Speed run instances are killing PLD

[DeadRiser]

This. x1021365413621354

I don't like that to complete some of these "speed runs", it requires stupid class/job stacking.

I went into a "speed run" party and it was pretty lame in AV. Stacked 5 black mages in the beggining, then stacked 5 monks at the boss. I don't want to be "required" with these setups just to get a chest that has a horrible drop rate to begin with.

[Raikki]

I don't like that to complete some of these "speed runs", it requires stupid class/job stacking.

I don't think "requires" means what you think it means. Someone already claimed this in another thread, and docmog ran an "all jobs" AV 5chest run (including PLD tank) and won first try, recorded it, and posted it. When decent LSes run these dungeons with "stacked classes" there are several minutes to spare at the end. That's plenty of extra time to do it less efficiently if you want. What you're really asking for is to be able to 5 chest with inefficient classes without knowing how to play.

[SwordCoheir]

I don't think "requires" means what you think it means. Someone already claimed this in another thread, and docmog ran an "all jobs" AV 5chest run (including PLD tank) and won first try, recorded it, and posted it. When decent LSes run these dungeons with "stacked classes" there are several minutes to spare at the end. That's plenty of extra time to do it less efficiently if you want. What you're really asking for is to be able to 5 chest with inefficient classes without knowing how to play.

Taking into account for the average players skill, experience, and other factors like job availability however, most don't have the experience or ability to pull off speedruns. Even with an optimal setup your playing a game of Russian Roulette on time because of a plethora of factors that may happen unexpectedly, especially with inexperienced AV/CC people. Playing with the cookie cutter setups really just gives players the easiest option to combat against the time constraints, even though it alienates other jobs in the process.

That's not to say an experienced enough group can't do it with a horrible setup, just cutting potential liabilities out of the way makes the goal easier to reach, and when your just trying to reach that goal to begin with you go for the best proven way to do it. (By potential liabilities I mean like DD's who can't AoE reliably slowing kills, close ranged DD's on Coincounter potentially getting hit by 100 Tonze Swing that sort of thing.)

[Raikki]

Taking into account for the average players skill, experience, and other factors like job availability however, most don't have the experience or ability to pull off speedruns.

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Playing with the cookie cutter setups really just gives players the easiest option to combat against the time constraints, even though it alienates other jobs in the process.

Pickup groups will follow the easiest strategy possible regardless of a time-based reward. Countless pickup groups have been run using "cookie cutter setups" without any intention or hope of accomplishing a 5 chest clear. In 1.18, people stacked ARCs for Darkhold before they even knew there was a 25 minute chest to be had. In 1.19, people stacked LNCs when there was no time-based reward at all. 1.20 brought more ARC stacking, and again no time-based reward. Am I really supposed to believe now that 1.21 class stacking and cookie cutter setups are because of the 5 chest time condition, which you've just told me most people can't accomplish anyway?

[SwordCoheir]

Pickup groups will follow the easiest strategy possible regardless of a time-based reward. Countless pickup groups have been run using "cookie cutter setups" without any intention or hope of accomplishing a 5 chest clear. In 1.18, people stacked ARCs for Darkhold before they even knew there was a 25 minute chest to be had. In 1.19, people stacked LNCs when there was no time-based reward at all. 1.20 brought more ARC stacking, and again no time-based reward. Am I really supposed to believe now that 1.21 class stacking and cookie cutter setups are because of the 5 chest time condition, which you've just told me most people can't accomplish anyway?

Nobody said they were completely separate from one another, however time based rewards gives little flexibility to players with few jobs or who are more casual players. It's not like Ifrit or King Mog where no matter what time you kill them in the rewards are the same. You could go in with an all GLA/PLD group and win even if it took forever and still get rewarded for your efforts. AV, CC, and DH to get the best it has to offer you have to be pretty quick and flawless, and that just isn't possible without lots of experience in those areas, or having the ability to output damage and mitigate every potential liability along the way to help make up for that lack of experience hence "cookie cutter" setups.

Most of us are by no means asking for easy mode or handouts, we're just asking for content to be more flexible so PLD and other jobs are considered just as much as current cookie cutter options and still give casual players a fair shot at obtaining rewards even if it takes longer for them to procure it.

[Nexxus]

Pickup groups will follow the easiest strategy possible regardless of a time-based reward. Countless pickup groups have been run using "cookie cutter setups" without any intention or hope of accomplishing a 5 chest clear. In 1.18, people stacked ARCs for Darkhold before they even knew there was a 25 minute chest to be had. In 1.19, people stacked LNCs when there was no time-based reward at all. 1.20 brought more ARC stacking, and again no time-based reward. Am I really supposed to believe now that 1.21 class stacking and cookie cutter setups are because of the 5 chest time condition, which you've just told me most people can't accomplish anyway?

15min Cooldown (after the end of dungeon) and 5th chest timer is the reason. longer cooldown (a day ~), no 5th chest timer, you don't have to hurry, you can play the safest and/or funiest setup instead of the most efficiently and easiest setup.

Also, be able to switch job in dungeon should be forbidden.

[Riv]

Also, be able to switch job in dungeon should be forbidden.

Lets just axe the entire Armory system while we're at it. /sarcasm

[DeadRiser]

I don't think "requires" means what you think it means. Someone already claimed this in another thread, and docmog ran an "all jobs" AV 5chest run (including PLD tank) and won first try, recorded it, and posted it. When decent LSes run these dungeons with "stacked classes" there are several minutes to spare at the end. That's plenty of extra time to do it less efficiently if you want. What you're really asking for is to be able to 5 chest with inefficient classes without knowing how to play.

I don't know where you come up with these assumptions but I joined a party that was 6 of one linkshell and me and one another were of random pickup.

With class stacking, depending on the luck of what coincounter does and where morbol goes, it's all random. I'm not asking to make it easier, I'm just tired of class stacking and knocking out PLD just to do a speed run.

SE needs to implement a system that debuffs the party for having too much of one class/job and take away TA period. There's no challenge to this content, just beating it the easiest way possible makes it even worse. Why can't we just have challenging content?