Speed run instances are killing PLD

[Reinheart]

If SE intends Warrior to tank, they need give it Taunt and nerf its damage/AoE output.

Warrior is a Tank if you look at the 2.0 UI image.

[Brannigan]

If SE intends Warrior to tank, they need give it Taunt and nerf its damage/AoE output.

Warrior has access to provoke, flash, and most of the best defensive abilities in the game. Taunt would barely help them and I wouldn't even waste an action slot on it given that their alternatives are so good.

They don't need to bring Warrior down, they need to bring Paladin up to its level. If Paladin and Dragoon were brought up a little bit I think class balance would be pretty damn good (maybe dragoon is okay right now? I haven't seen one perform well compared to monk).

[fusional]

They don't need to bring Warrior down, they need to bring Paladin up to its level.

yes. it's all about enmity. my LS uses warrior tanks simply because their enmity generation is much faster and higher than that of paladins, and we *need that* when our monks and blms are doing 145-160 dps on mistress.

sure, the extra damage a warrior brings to the table is nice, and that extra damage is part of what makes their enmity generation better- but that just means square needs to adjust paladin's enmity generation to comparable levels. the recent changes were a good boost, but still not enough. almost makes me think they need to give paladin some kind of native enmity aura or something.

If Paladin and Dragoon were brought up a little bit I think class balance would be pretty damn good (maybe dragoon is okay right now? I haven't seen one perform well compared to monk).

that's the thing. class balance is extremely good right now other than the pld vs. war issue.

monk is great single target vs magic weak mobs, good single target otherwise, poor aoe. warrior is great aoe, average single target. bard is decent single target, decent aoe, not great at anything but has party buffs. blm is great single target and great aoe, but in fights longer than 3 mins they're going to start to see a dramatic drop off as MP becomes an issue (especially vs. corselet melee). dragoon is pretty good single target, pretty good aoe (second only to war).

sure, most speed run groups mix and match to best deal with each encounter, but most speed run groups are also finishing in about 18-20 minutes by doing so. that still leaves 5-7 minutes or more on the clock. and other LSs (DoW, etc) have already proven it's entirely easy to roll through to a 5 chest clear without stacking jobs, and without changing jobs at all.

the community is partially to blame, as always. but the bottom line is people are mostly just making excuses. everything is pretty balanced. speed runs are easy without stacking jobs or maintaining rigid job preference. everyone just needs to suck it up and play better.

the end.

[myoozek]

Agreed with the sentiment expressed by some in this thread that the community is too needy and under-appreciative of the efforts to balance the game, which I think are balancing out fairly well. It'll take some time to perfect (especially with SE catering to such an audience).

Considering AV and CC are currently what defines our 'end game', I'm slightly discouraged to see it defeated so easily, especially with the optimized stacked party being so mainstream. Understandably, players who've done 100+ runs have a right to complain about a shitty drop rate, but as cited earlier, that's a different story.

The fact that so many parties participating in these events are so inclined for a stacked party, to me, indicates their interest to be not in the challenge of fighting, or the joys of such challenge, but almost solely interested in the drops alone. That is to say, if the quickest route to (me) and (item) is (strat), then let's do that. If you find yourself surrounded by people not wanting to experiment with different classes and jobs, (something I salute DoW for in posting that video people have mentioned) then find another group.

I firmly believe class stacking is a combination of two things:
•Players wanting the quickest and easiest method of winning (and not experimenting) - a result of watching how everyone else does it and flocking to that particularly strat religiously and,
•Players sucking at their jobs

[ChickNorris]

The fact that so many parties participating in these events are so inclined for a stacked party, to me, indicates their interest to be not in the challenge of fighting, or the joys of such challenge, but almost solely interested in the drops alone. That is to say, if the quickest route to (me) and (item) is (strat), then let's do that. If you find yourself surrounded by people not wanting to experiment with different classes and jobs, then find another group.

•Players wanting the quickest and easiest method of winning (and not experimenting) - a result of watching how everyone else does it and flocking to that particularly strat religiously

QFT

And it spreads to the forums. I know PLDs who do just fine on speed run in all content. I know War who don't. And so on and so on. I also know DD who can steal hate off either job and ones who can't. If everyone would focus on the party they are with, rather then the party they were with or saw or heard about, I think you would find that any content on this game can be done with multiple combinations and skill levels.

Stats don't replace thinking. Ever. Find an LS that wants to play with you. Not your job.

If you know someone is weak in an area, plan for the weakness to occur and compensate. If you know someone is strong in an area, plan for the boost and play it up.

Is really very basic group concepts.

[Brannigan]

yes. it's all about enmity. my LS uses warrior tanks simply because their enmity generation is much faster and higher than that of paladins, and we *need that* when our monks and blms are doing 145-160 dps on mistress.

sure, the extra damage a warrior brings to the table is nice, and that extra damage is part of what makes their enmity generation better- but that just means square needs to adjust paladin's enmity generation to comparable levels. the recent changes were a good boost, but still not enough. almost makes me think they need to give paladin some kind of native enmity aura or something.

I doubt just adding passive enmity would solve paladin's problems. The tank can't be doing such little damage in this kind of game. If Paladin did even 75% of a warrior's single target damage (while tanking) that would be a huge boost. This of course includes proper use of combos, etc. If Riot Blade were usable from the front that might help things a bit.

And of course even with improved damage/enmity, paladin is still way more vulnerable to magical/bighuge attacks because of lower HP and the same mitigation.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

yes. it's all about enmity. my LS uses warrior tanks simply because their enmity generation is much faster and higher than that of paladins, and we *need that* when our monks and blms are doing 145-160 dps on mistress.

Who says we're not already playing FFXI? >.>

[syntaxlies]

If SE intends Warrior to tank, they need give it Taunt and nerf its damage/AoE output.

war is right were it needs to be, its a dd tank. the problem is the damage mitigation tank isnt good enough at mitigating damage as it should be. Dont break war to fix pld, just fix pld.

Also War has far superior tanking skills then pld so im not sure if taunt would make a difference.

[Agoven]

Don't get rid of anything...VARIETY is good. Just need more VARIETY!!! I'm still waiting for the epic dungeon with no timer...

[elreed]

i prefer the way they did toto rak, they could do something similar but instead of finishing the dungeon when killing one of the three bosses i prefer killing all 3 to get the 5th chest, might take longer to clear but at least will help getting different setups, they can even make bosses more difficult as you kill em, 1st normal, 2nd double difficulty, 3rd tripple difficulty, idk or add more skills to those or in a better case make different bosses not just in name, of course if you're doing all that the drop rate should/must be upgraded according with the number of boss killed.

The best way to do it is make 2 rooms for boss pop, and a third room that is unlocked after beating the 2 boss, give 2 chest one chest per room and 3 in the last room (those 3 will spawn if all the puzzles were solved if not just 1) that would be a good time sink