Sleeve Draw feels horrible now

[Saefinn]

Then it brings it back to the initial issue of constant tab-targetting, which prevents and turns people away from AST. Like it or not, it can be exhausting to do their 5.2 opener constantly. I raided on AST during Eden Titan era and while it feels great to get off the cards, it's pretty tricky on controller.

The switching problem exists due them getting rid of an AoE option that was Royal Road.

Perhaps they could give Draw 2 stacks instead? Adding more cards into Sleeve Draw only makes it a chore to do and SE only wants to boost their AST playrate which is much lower than SCH and WHM which is concerning to them of course.

I think if they did 1 card but reduced the cooldown to 90 or 60 seconds it is spaced out enough to not be carpal tunnel, but enough to feel like we have a weave and at 60 seconds we get 3 cards for every 180seconds like we used to but better spaced out. At 90 it is enough to reduce our rDPS without being as painful.

[ForteNightshade]

I think if they did 1 card but reduced the cooldown to 90 or 60 seconds it is spaced out enough to not be carpal tunnel, but enough to feel like we have a weave and at 60 seconds we get 3 cards for every 180seconds like we used to but better spaced out. At 90 it is enough to reduce our rDPS without being as painful.

The issue with making Sleeve 60 seconds is it completely eliminates any RNG with the cards. Divination is on a 120s cooldown which means you could easily fit two uses of Sleeve before your next Divination. Granted, it isn't like getting a three seal Div is difficult but I suspect SE wants to retain some degree of RNG even if it's ultimately small.

[Awha]

Legit question, is the carpal tunnel, RSI complaints a meme I missed or genuine concern people have?

[Saefinn]

Legit question, is the carpal tunnel, RSI complaints a meme I missed or genuine concern people have?

It's hyperbole, but highlights a controller issue where you're jumping around the controller quite a lot in quick succession, the impression being "if you constantly do this you'll give yourself carpal tunnel" but hyperbole because I've not heard of it /actually/ happening to anybody, but it is a problem if you find yourself having to do it, it can be awkward and uncomfortable, it's a problem SMN and NIN had in 5.0 and SE corrected it very quickly. Whilst you can play AST without the problem, when you're trying to optimise your cards, it is an issue.

The issue with making Sleeve 60 seconds is it completely eliminates any RNG with the cards. Divination is on a 120s cooldown which means you could easily fit two uses of Sleeve before your next Divination. Granted, it isn't like getting a three seal Div is difficult but I suspect SE wants to retain some degree of RNG even if it's ultimately small.

Fair point, in which case, would reducing the recast of Draw be better instead? Maybe to 45 or 30 seconds.

[MintnHoney]

Fair point, in which case, would reducing the recast of Draw be better instead? Maybe to 45 or 30 seconds.

Draw currently already has a 30 second recast.

[ForteNightshade]

Fair point, in which case, would reducing the recast of Draw be better instead? Maybe to 45 or 30 seconds.

Draw is already 30 seconds. I think a simpler change is to give Sleeve Draw two charges. This guarantees a three Seal Div at the beginning as you'll Draw, Sleeve x2 and bam. You're done. Maybe still bringing the CD down to 120 or you could go with Div resetting a single charge.

[Sebazy]

Legit question, is the carpal tunnel, RSI complaints a meme I missed or genuine concern people have?

For some, potentially. Back in Everquest, my guild's main Bard was pretty much crippled by RSI towards the end of of Luclin.

[AnotherPerson]

Legit question, is the carpal tunnel, RSI complaints a meme I missed or genuine concern people have?

A legitimate concern. When I started playing AST at lv 70 and had to play with the opener I was busy trying to multi task figuring out who should get what card and what seal it is in the fraction of the second. Having 3 cards means looking back and forth between the card I drew + the party list to see who should get the seal. If someone delays divination or delays sleeve draw with redraw, it becomes worse because they are no longer focusing on the encounter itself and dodging mechanics. This is especially true for fights you don't know. Once you get used to it however, it becomes less problematic, but you can still have people easily tunnel vision if they haven't practiced with their opener.

It was a galaxy brain opener which had you change and react accordingly on the fly - and while I do personally enjoyed that, 3 cards can also be very overbearing at the beginning.

The MP changes were well needed for most of casual play (where death becomes unrecoverable at mana intensive plays) so I'm glad the MP changes happened. I don't have to worry about making a specific gear solely for AST with piety concerns. The reduction in mp cost across the board though means you should never use benefic ever unless you queue up in low level content.

The reduction of cards hurt a lot more than it should because if AST a messes up with their divination slightly by playing a card too early, then they no longer can start divination on their opener and pushes everything off by 2 minutes or they'll drift with everyone's openers. Although sleeve draw being one card removes carpal tunneling, making sleeve draw 1 card also brings the problem of death - from what I recall, as seals are not saved on death you lose all seals - and sleeve draw being 1 seal doesn't help you bounce back to get divination back on time.

I do understand why they changed it though - less piety means more DPS for those not at the very optimized min-piety set, which would increase AST's DPS a bit more than normal. It also means you can run AST in DF without worrying about running out of mana from min-piety set or have to worry that 1 death means you're completely useless to heal.

[elioaiko]

Legit question, is the carpal tunnel, RSI complaints a meme I missed or genuine concern people have?

Personally I hated the opener but having to cram that much into an opener can be frustrating and RNG could still hurt you so I can see where three more casual playerbase would dislike it. The tab targetting is also finicky,

I think if they did 1 card but reduced the cooldown to 90 or 60 seconds it is spaced out enough to not be carpal tunnel, but enough to feel like we have a weave and at 60 seconds we get 3 cards for every 180seconds like we used to but better spaced out. At 90 it is enough to reduce our rDPS without being as painful.

Yeah like ForteNight said, having it too low would defeat the purpose of RNG. Maybe in exchange for a lower CD, it drops the guaranteed aspect? I'm fine with it being 120s however.

[GrimGale]

I find this version of Sleeve Draw only useful when two seals have already been drawn. It guarantees the third one to be different from the other two.

So in essence it only ensures the opening divination in a fight to be at three seals, that is if the party is willing to wait 30s before the pull.

Draw a card before pull, and wait for the CD on draw to be almost over. Then start fight, fling first card, then second then Sleeve draw for the third then divination.

I wish we could have something to reduce Sleeve Draw's CD with proper play. Maybe a trait that recudes Sleeve Draw CD by X seconds everytime we use the proper card on a target and every time we use a 3 seal divination.