Revelations from Patch 5.3

**Kesey** · 08-22-2020 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I took it as more a metaphor for how he was small and alone now with the others gone. He still had a grown man's voice.

This is a good point too.

**Alleluia** · 08-22-2020 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I took it as more a metaphor for how he was small and alone now with the others gone. He still had a grown man's voice.

It having been symbolic was also definitely a possibility.

**Katie_Kitty** · 08-22-2020 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kiniun

Finishing this thread took longer than finishing the MSQ!

The thing I don't get for Emet-Selch or Elidibus is why they didn't just wait for the Warrior of Light to die of natural causes? Once Lahabrea died, wouldn't they think, "Oh, there's some danger in engaging wit this WoL? For Elidibus, it's an even more important question when he became last of the Unsundered. Especially if only the Unsundered can raise up Sundered Ascians! And surely a century means nothing when you've been waiting for 12,000 years. Hydaelyn continues to weaken as the ages pass (if we can believe Master Matoya). So why not wait a little bit? Sure, these plans will be ruined, but with eternity, there will always be a chance to set up new ones.

So, if you look at the timeline of things, you'll see that they never really *had* time to stop and wait for the WoL to die naturally (except Elidibus). Consider this: The flood of light on the first, an essential part of their plan for the 8th calamity, had already begun by the time we reached the endgame of Heavensward (which was around the time Lahabrea died). That plan was already long in motion before we ever showed a hint of being as much of a dire threat as we are. During stormblood, the ascians were not much of a focal point, as we were busy dealing with our mission to liberate Doma and Ala Migho. Now, you might say "They could have halted the plan on the first when Lahabrea died," but here's the thing: *We* were not the ones who killed lahabrea. They pinned the blame for Lahabrea's demise on his own foolishness, not on us. So, even up all the way through stormblood, we weren't considered that much of a threat to them. The only reason why Elidizenos even approached us to defeat us at ghmlyt dark was because he believed we threatened the balance on the source, not because he thought we were an existential threat to the ascians and their plans.

It wasn't until we directly intervened on the first and murdered Emet-Selch that it became clear how much of a threat we posed to the ascians. Elidibus could have put a stop to everything right then and there and waited us out, but he wasn't in his right mind at that point anymore. He was desperate and scared, and angry. It wasn't *just* about bringing Zodiark back at that point - he wanted "justice" for emet-selch and lahabrea. And ultimately he failed to accomplish that when we got our Azem stone.

**Slatersev** · 08-22-2020 12:44 PM

It's worth noting that in his memories Elidibus is shown to be shorter then the first WoL he possessed. When he reaches out to him his arm only reaches the Warriors mid back.

His height is definitely more then symbolic, and considering that possession was basically at the start, its not eons of duty that made him that way.

**Alleo** · 08-22-2020 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Kiniun

Finishing this thread took longer than finishing the MSQ!

The thing I don't get for Emet-Selch or Elidibus is why they didn't just wait for the Warrior of Light to die of natural causes? Once Lahabrea died, wouldn't they think, "Oh, there's some danger in engaging wit this WoL? For Elidibus, it's an even more important question when he became last of the Unsundered. Especially if only the Unsundered can raise up Sundered Ascians! And surely a century means nothing when you've been waiting for 12,000 years. Hydaelyn continues to weaken as the ages pass (if we can believe Master Matoya). So why not wait a little bit? Sure, these plans will be ruined, but with eternity, there will always be a chance to set up new ones.

About your question:

Well on one side I think they still truly believed that they are above us so that losing was never something big on their mind. And maybe after being the only one left Elidibus saw in us a big enough threat to deal with now, because seemingly in the span of a very short time we got so much stronger. And on top of that the Ascians are now known by quite a few people. Even if they stayed out of the conflict and wait a few years it could be that we would bring the fight to them.

But I guess the easiest answer is, that its to have a story. So the enemies have to act now even if they took thousands of years of planning and acting before that.

**Naria** · 08-23-2020 04:09 AM

Better late than never?

MSQ

The Shadowbringers from 5.0-5.3 has probably my most satisfying experience in gaming storytelling. My only regret was that 5.1-5.3 were not unlocked immediately in new game plus.

Considering his general craziness (and his robe) I'm wondering if Fandaniel was from the thirteenth before he was "raised up". From what Nabrielas said I'm also wondering if all of the "raised" Ascians are from the from the reflections or if any of them are also from the source or are the "main" shard of that Ascian.

I'm not sure how I feel about Zenos and Fandaniel as villains, but Shadowbringers has been the expansion of mis-founded apprehension for me story-wise so at this point I'm willing to go with it.

YoHRa: I haven't played Nier

. . . But I enjoyed the raid and like the armor?

I wonder if the Nier group post date the sundering? Or are there androids on every shard? If they are exclusive to the first how did they get there?

I absolutely love Anogg and Konogg and the writing for Korma in general. My only real complaint is that the ending of the story for this patch felt a bit sudden, but that will probably be corrected when we can play it all at once.

Moble Suit ~~Gundam~~ G-weapon Ultima

SO I admit it I left the training to go glam the Late Allagan gear. I'm intrested to find out more about Terncliff and Werlyt as it is our first chance to really see any of Isalbard and the local Raen population as well.

Valens is quite creepy. Did Emet specify insanity as a requirement for Legatus of the VIth?

Could we get a new map, please? Before the expansion? I'd really like to be able to visualize where we are going. So many places we have been since the new map was released 4.0 aren't on it.

Dwarven Dailies

Actually the Dwarves in general have been a treat this expansion. I thought the bar tending mini game was fun. I wonder if any other npc will be added as we rank up?
I'm a bit surprised that there are still enough sin eaters around to need tanks though, considering the MSQs seems to indicated that there were less common and weaker now without the flood of light. eh /shrug

Also all the kudos to the animation team this patch, they have really stepped up!

Going to Edit since no one has posted and I don't want to double post:

Elidibus

To me I interpreted the echo flashbacks and the shade of Elidibus to mean that he was a child when he joined the convocation and later became Zodiark's heart. That doesn't mean he is still one now or even if he was still a child when the sundering happened (we also don't know how long there was between when Zodiark was summoned and when Hydaelyn was). Its been 12000 years on the Source since the sundering and Elidibus likely lived several lifetimes as a Warrior of Light at the least. Elidibus might have been a child then, but even being the god-Avatar from a race of near-Immortals but he isn't one now.

If Eli was a child when during the Terminus/Zodiarks summoning etc it does put an interesting spin on his relationship with Unukalhai, as another child tasked with saving the world who failed.

Edit 2

The Fourteenth

The fact that Azem is called a "defector" is intriguing. We know that they left before Zodiark's summoning but didn't join Venat's rebels. Who then, were they defecting to? Elidibus seems to have completely forgotten Azem's existence. Considering that they both have "together but apart" positions on the convocation I have to wonder what their relationship was, and if the person that Elidibus swore an oath to but can't remember is Azem. I wonder when the player character will realize that they are Azem?

**EdwinLi** · 08-23-2020 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Naria

The Fourteenth

The fact that Azem is called a "defector" is intriguing. We know that they left before Zodiark's summoning but didn't join Venat's rebels. Who then, were they defecting to? Elidibus seems to have completely forgotten Azem's existence. Considering that they both have "together but apart" positions on the convocation I have to wonder what their relationship was, and if the person that Elidibus swore an oath to but can't remember is Azem. I wonder when the player character will realize that they are Azem?

I honestly expect the 5.4 to 5.55 story focus partly on the Azem and our character beginning to see memories and possible some vision phantoms through the storyline. With 6.0 to 6.3 being the finale of Season 1 storyline, it seems fit for the prologue of 6.0 storyline (being 5.4 to 5.55 MSQ) to prepare us for what our character may experience in 6.0 to 6.3 and what may awaken within him/her now he/she has the Soul Crystal

**Rannie** · 08-23-2020 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Naria

The Fourteenth

The fact that Azem is called a "defector" is intriguing. We know that they left before Zodiark's summoning but didn't join Venat's rebels. Who then, were they defecting to? Elidibus seems to have completely forgotten Azem's existence. Considering that they both have "together but apart" positions on the convocation I have to wonder what their relationship was, and if the person that Elidibus swore an oath to but can't remember is Azem. I wonder when the player character will realize that they are Azem?

I would say they weren't defecting to another Personor country but defecting against the summoning of Zodiark (defecting doesn't just mean abandoning ones country... it also means abandoning a cause in favor of an opposing one. ) and why they refused to respond to the ones who summoned Hydaelyn. They already said no and from what Hytholodaeus says to us, going into spoiler tags now,

Azem was more or less a DIY home/world repair type person. They never relied on or went to the convocation for help just grabbed a bunch of their buddies they met along the way and would raise the barns themselves so to speak. Also I'm pretty sure that our PC knows that they were Azem... Hythlodaeus pretty much says that that crystal is where belongs. Strongly implying and then some to the character on who were were.

**Iscah** · 08-23-2020 02:32 PM

Are we dropping spoiler tags now? I don't think anyone this deep in the discussion wouldn't have finished the MSQ yet.

Originally Posted by Naria

The Fourteenth

The fact that Azem is called a "defector" is intriguing. We know that they left before Zodiark's summoning but didn't join Venat's rebels. Who then, were they defecting to? Elidibus seems to have completely forgotten Azem's existence. Considering that they both have "together but apart" positions on the convocation I have to wonder what their relationship was, and if the person that Elidibus swore an oath to but can't remember is Azem. I wonder when the player character will realize that they are Azem?

They don't have to defect "to" anything - the act of turning away is the defection itself. They have defected from "with the Convocation" to "against the Convocation".

I understood Elidibus's oath to have been sworn to the group, not to a specific individual.

And I think the player-character has already come to their realisation during the climax.

**RyuDragnier** · 08-24-2020 08:55 AM

Just had a few thoughts on the 14th and a certain word.

With the reveal that we're Azem The Traveler, we're represented by the Sun, and Azem means Sun in many languages, I have a theory on why that word is used for Sun. Considering our job was basically traveling the world and helping people, after Zodiark's summoning and the birth of new races, we did our usual thing and traveled and helped. This would lead many of the new races to see us as a savior or god, depending on what we were helping with. If we wore that crystal on our person and it was visible at all times, they would associate our name with the Sun itself, leading to the word's use and the people considering us the god of the Sun.

This would eventually lead to the naming of Azim Steppe (likely a place we had visited in the past), the Sun's Throne (which probably was created via our doing), and the naming of the Dawn Father as Azim.. This does however lead to another important question...who was Nhaama? Was she one of the new races we fought against and fell in love with, was she another Ascian, or is the story completely overblown in usual fashion by the passage of time?

Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.3

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