Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.3

The situation with Thordan was mostly supposed to just express there was 'something different' about us as we did something Thordan thought was impossible, much like many other enemies seem to point out throughout the main scenerio. Though I doubt the Writers had specific plans for what that 'thing' was at the time of Heavensward just that there was something 'that made us different'.

They also resue the effect with Zenos when he kills his farther and the context seems the same, in fact reusing it there makes me feel like their using it to continue the parallel that we're so far and above those around us in strength that at times we can seem monstrous just like Zenos, continuing the "beast" comparison.
Both he and us are a kin to monsters, we simply do good so most see us as heroic, but just like the general world sees Zenos as this horrid unstoppable beast, I'm sure many and more of those we've put down saw what Thordan, this unstoppable "thing" hardly a person.

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

They also resue the effect with Zenos when he kills his farther and the context seems the same, in fact reusing it there makes me feel like their using it to continue the parallel that we're so far and above those around us in strength that at times we can seem monstrous just like Zenos, continuing the "beast" comparison.
Both he and us are a kin to monsters, we simply do good so most see us as heroic, but just like the general world sees Zenos as this horrid unstoppable beast, I'm sure many and more of those we've put down saw what Thordan, this unstoppable "thing" hardly a person.

With Zenos having visions of Amaurot.....did he say he had these visions even before the artificial Echo? I don't recall. Having a soul strong enough to force Elidibus out of his body......makes me wonder if he himself is a sundered ancient from the convocation.

Originally Posted by WarzonePrez

With Zenos having visions of Amaurot.....did he say he had these visions even before the artificial Echo? I don't recall. Having a soul strong enough to force Elidibus out of his body......makes me wonder if he himself is a sundered ancient from the convocation.

I can't say for certain, but from what I recall he implies he's always had these dreams but never through much on them buy being annoyed it kept happening until he learned the truth.

Edit:
Just re-watched the 5.2 cutscene, when Fandaniel asks him about his dream Zenos responds with "I have always dreamed of it..." So it seems he's dreamt of it before he got his "fake" Echo.

Originally Posted by Draginhikari

The situation with Thordan was mostly supposed to just express there was 'something different' about us as we did something Thordan thought was impossible, much like many other enemies seem to point out throughout the main scenerio. Though I doubt the Writers had specific plans for what that 'thing' was at the time of Heavensward just that there was something 'that made us different'.

I think I remember them saying in an interview when asked about the Thordan scene that they specifically didn't have any idea what it meant back then. Does anyone else remember that?

It works really really well with where the story is at now, but it wasn't foreshadowing anything at the time.

Originally Posted by WarzonePrez

When did the writers say the effect didnt mean anything? I wasn't aware they were ever asked about it.

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I think I remember them saying in an interview when asked about the Thordan scene that they specifically didn't have any idea what it meant back then. Does anyone else remember that?

It works really really well with where the story is at now, but it wasn't foreshadowing anything at the time.

Gamer Escape Lorecast 9 interview with Koji Fox, PAX 2017.

Gamer Escape: At the end of Heavensward, the Warrior of Light saw themselves through Thordan’s eyes as he asked, "What are you?" The moment looked downright sinister. Should we be worried?

Koji Fox: This was a combination of things. First, the cutscene team wanted to do something really dramatic. You see that a lot in anime—that dramatic perspective. The other half is that you’re literally seeing it through his eyes. He’s convinced himself that the way he was doing things was the correct way and that he was in the supreme right. Then you come in and you break all of that down. In his mind’s eye, you’re the evil one—and the last thing he sees is you in that evil image.

As a caveat, the writers of FFXIV have a tendency of taking things that didn't really mean anything that special at the time, and retconning them (in Moose's terms, "additive retcon") to be something different and more meaningful in future expansions.

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

I think that is presumptuous at current. its more like we are the reincarnation of an Ancient.

I know. My point was more that our old self was not an Ascian. Be it a reincarnated one or not.

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

They also resue the effect with Zenos when he kills his farther and the context seems the same, in fact reusing it there makes me feel like their using it to continue the parallel that we're so far and above those around us in strength that at times we can seem monstrous just like Zenos, continuing the "beast" comparison.
Both he and us are a kin to monsters, we simply do good so most see us as heroic, but just like the general world sees Zenos as this horrid unstoppable beast, I'm sure many and more of those we've put down saw what Thordan, this unstoppable "thing" hardly a person.

The idea of WoL and Zenos being direct foils makes the most sense and mostly seems to be the direct the story is going for mostly.

The comparison of both WoL and Zenos as 'Monsters among men' has been brought up several times. They're both unusual skilled, always desire challenges, and capable of what appears to be nigh impossible feats. Of course, what makes them foils is primarily the fact that despite the violence the WoL has to commit in the context of the story, the WoL is empathic to those they encountered, even sometimes to the enemies they fight at times. While Zenos is basically a Psychopath with little remorse for the damage he causes. Zenos is basically what the WoL would be without that empathy.

Originally Posted by Draginhikari

The idea of WoL and Zenos being direct foils makes the most sense and mostly seems to be the direct the story is going for mostly.

The comparison of both WoL and Zenos as 'Monsters among men' has been brought up several times. They're both unusual skilled, always desire challenges, and capable of what appears to be nigh impossible feats. Of course, what makes them foils is primarily the fact that despite the violence the WoL has to commit in the context of the story, the WoL is empathic to those they encountered, even sometimes to the enemies they fight at times. While Zenos is basically a Psychopath with little remorse for the damage he causes. Zenos is basically what the WoL would be without that empathy.

I just realized something from this post. Emet-Selch was attempting to create a fully Unsundered Ascian soul right? Whose soul do you think he'd be dead set on making again? Azem's. I have a feeling Zenos being a foil isn't just for show. He is in fact an attempted clone of Azem's soul, and is a failed one simply because of what you said, he has all the need to challenge himself without the WoL's intense empathy.