Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.3

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You must be new to Yoko Taro. How things fit in is never explained in his stuff until towards the end of each game. You think you know what is going on, then you hit towards the end of the game and you get sucker-punched by him throwing a curveball your way. I expect the final tier of the Nier raid to be the same.

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

Weep. I am so very sorry for you.

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

His games draw you in during the beginning due to their unique gameplay and bizarre world. Look up the starting part of Nier Automata to get a good look at his MO. As for how it meshes...I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to reference Ending D of Nier Automata in the finale. And if that is what they use, those of us who have finished the game already have a thought on how they're going to do it.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

His games draw you in during the beginning due to their unique gameplay and bizarre world. Look up the starting part of Nier Automata to get a good look at his MO. As for how it meshes...I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to reference Ending D of Nier Automata in the finale. And if that is what they use, those of us who have finished the game already have a thought on how they're going to do it.

I got PTSD at those rings. I want him to go full on Ending E. Or have a way to repeat the quest for the opposite choice for a bonus.

If someone doesn't want to be sold on Taro, then there's no selling to them. His games are weird, he knows they're weird and considering what your party members consist of, it's a niche taste far from it to be enjoyed by a majority.

Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

I believe the issue you're having is that the answer is not being presented to you from the beginning.

The thing about the Drakengard/Nier series is that the story is never presented to the play upfront until near the ending of the game. This game series is known for starting the story as something that appears very predictable but then as players get closer to the end they learn there has always been far more than what it seems and everything they have known was never what it was.

This is a staple of the series many people who follow the Drakengard/Nier series love and hate at the sametime.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You must be new to Yoko Taro. How things fit in is never explained in his stuff until towards the end of each game. You think you know what is going on, then you hit towards the end of the game and you get sucker-punched by him throwing a curveball your way. I expect the final tier of the Nier raid to be the same.

This must be how FF12 and Tacticts fans felt during Ivalice. Because this was made for me and I can't hep but to want to sprinkle salt atop the heads of people complaining.

So, having had some time to sober up from the highs and lows of 5.3, I think I’m less dissatisfied with the way they handled it overall.

I still maintain several of my issues with it (overall rushed feeling; ineffectiveness of the Amaurot gauntlet; lacklustre dungeon; trial felt disjointed; Zenos remains boring; a little too much fanservice; Fandaniel seems a bit of a repeat of Emet in his affect to compensate for Zenos being dull, amongst the other things I mentioned) but focusing on how they related the story of the Convocation to the main character, I’m more satisfied with it, so I’ll just touch on the positives here.

They’re doing their best to connect what remains of the ancient world with the protagonist, and whilst I’ve said I would have loved a story where you could have picked a side in this dispute (yes, I know, not really possible with how they set this up), I think given the confines of their budget and the style of the game and its remaining lifespan, this is a decent compromise. I see them potentially using this as a vessel to diminish Hydaelyn’s role as the Convocation return, albeit in a different form, as stewards of the Star. All that leaves me a little…



Although I still believe they compromised some of Elidibus’s character, particularly the more familiar one is with him from between ARR and SB, and some of it feels ad hoc, at least there is an explanation both for some of the haziness in his mind and not being as powerful as Emet-Selch, in that he is the remnant of Zodiark’s dominant imperative as a primal and whatever imprints that left on Elidibus as a person, so a primal… after a fashion. It’s not clear when his memory began deteriorating, but perhaps the trauma of watching Emet-Selch fade was the catalyst. It provided an opening for the protagonists to try weaken Elidibus’s resolve.

Any exposition he could offer may simply have been deferred for later, to avoid giving too much away about Hydaelyn/Venat etc., so perhaps that is why they took this route. His impulse to heroism/bringing salvation (and thus steadfast resoluteness/devotion) and, in a sense, his innocence of mind, despite being a schemer, were both nice touches. Plus, it was good to see Y'shtola pushing for understanding of and perhaps compromise with the remaining unsundered. It's a pity that a third way forward could never be found, but SE played that card already with Emet and didn't take it anywhere.

It still remains to be seen how they will clarify Venat’s involvement in the matter, particularly as it does not appear either Elidibus or Zodiark were sinister in nature, and I am curious to see if the main character’s rekindling of their memories and, to a degree, sorrow for being unable to find a way to compromise with his unsundered brethren will form a point of division between the protagonist and her, she who actively suppresses memories of the ancient world – or not. I can see the Convocation crystals (which conjure to mind those stones the Night’s Blessed incorporate in their funeral rituals) potentially returning and featuring in a final showdown with Zenos/Fandaniel abusing the power of Zodiark, and perhaps also in dealing with Hydaelyn, depending on how matters evolve with her.

With Elidibus withdrawing from Zodiark, it may provide an explanation as to how the conflict between them went out of control, especially if Hydaelyn was summoned out of the blue (because it’s not like the scene where they mention the hearts is timestamped, so it may have preceded the other scene where the summoning takes place by a bit) – it also means it would be possible for Venat to have done or do the same thing.

Though I am not really one for excessive ego stroking of my character, painting a more detailed picture of them through their history as Azem holds promise, and may yield what I’ve long wanted – one of the Ascian (or rather, Convocation) sigils. It allows them to develop the character through exploring their ancient past, whilst still allowing the player to project what they want on their current life.
All this does point to the Convocation being the inspiration behind the Twelve – if not exactly the same numerically, and not necessarily being a one-to-one correlation, at least in the sense that the role they played inspired faith in a similar body in the form of the Twelve, something that survived in the collective memory of the world.

I’m not sure if this has been posted yet, but I found this to be a nice way to convey more of the thoughts of the Convocation from the time, as well as this, denoting what may be the character’s sigil. Also interesting to find out there’s good reason to suspect the person with Lahabrea, addressing Elidibus, might be none other than Igeyorhm! It seems like the three had quite a close working relationship, much as you had Azem’s friendship with Emet and Hythlodaeus, and Loghrif with Mitron, and so on. All this leaves me wondering what Fandaniel was like at the time and whether any of this insolence we now see in him was there back then as well – I see it as being a major potential point of conflict with him, with his irreverence for the past and towards the unsundered Ascians.

A necromancer Warrior of Light in the dungeon was intriguing and goes to show it’s not an impossibility to reconcile these concepts, either, though again it does look like the concept of the WoL is being gradually moved in the direction of being a hero with a singular purpose, rather than Hydaelyn’s servant, per se.

Lastly, with Zenos being referred to by Elidibus and G’raha as the “beast” (yes, Elidibus calls the WoL this too but I think that was more of a dig, whereas with Zenos he genuinely struggled to comprehend him), my question is whether this will be tied to the crisis that befell Amaurot, seeing as this was something that also came up with the first two dungeon bosses and now is rearing its head in a similar fashion.

Furthermore, I wonder if they will tie Fandaniel and Zenos together somehow, seeing as both are sundered and therefore could be connected as shards.

So yes, I still have reservations and will wait and see where they take the story of the ancients and Venat, as well as Fandaniel and the insufferably dull Zenos, but there do seem to be at least some green shoots to inspire future interest until the saga is drawn to its conclusion, so I'll be eager to see how future patches shape up. Bozja also awaits and I am keen to see if it will contain more adaptations of Ivalice material. One other thing - though I appreciate the Shadowless robes, I still want the hood!

It looks a bit clearer that the path of future travel is Garlemald, though I'm reluctant to make any firm predictions about it - that said, with this being the final chapter in the main story's arc, I find it hard to believe they'd leave that huge, cloud-covered region, Ilsabard, just hanging until later expansions, particularly with Zenos reclaiming the palace. As Sharlayan is an independent city-state, I hope they manage to find a way to couple it with Ilsabard, if that's 6.0's destination.

I’ve gotten round to Nier now, and if I am right, it seems like they’re going with the “aliens” plot point for that. Curious to see how the Reflections interact with the greater cosmos (i.e. other stars), but I am reminded of the fact that they supposedly “rotate” in a manner of speaking, so I want to see if they will delve into that at all. The third and final fights were the most enjoyable.

Also completed Werlyt, and they did a good job with the robot fight, the mechanics were pretty fluid and the animations were good. Although small, Terncliff is a rather attractive map. I’d have liked to see Regula’s Oversoul form (why no gooey Regula?), but apparently those were never intended – just fusion of the pilot with the core. It was also good that they finally provided us with Valdeaulin’s story.

Onto the scene with Valens, legatus of the 7th. Finally, Tears for Mor Dhona sees some use outside of PotD! I wonder how much of the animation budget went into the beads of sweat and the milk, but still no sign of nipples. Much as with Fandaniel, Valens seems like a rehash of other legati, and I suppose he’s also meant to come across as quite creepy, though people will read into the scene what they want to. The impression I got was that he’s not a man who tolerates failure. Just seems like a rehash, tbh, but at least the fight was enjoyable and Gaius got a bit more focus.

Spoilers for 5.3

This patch was just so fucking good. The teases and everything were fantastic, the buildup to the Elidibus fight, etc. Let me start by going over that Elidibus was such a fantastic villain. I'm glad to have seen so much more of him because let's face it, the guy has has been an enigmatic piss off since the ARR days ever since waking sands, warring triad references, etc. The part in Dawn's respite was perfectly eerie and I loved it. But I also loved the solo duty where Elidibus admits to us that we are stronger than him once he puts us on a trip down memory lane. That solo duty was fantastic. Testing the WOL by fighting all her enemies she vanquished.... it really shows that the WoL is incredibly powerful and like Elidibus said, death itself (really interesting) I knew by the time Warrior of light was teased it was going to be the fight or something close to it. It was just so amazing and i'm blown away. Also, the reveal that Warrior of light is the seat of Azem (the 14th member of the Ascians) even though it was pretty much confirmed since the end of 5.0 was really nice to have 100% confirmed. The question remains though... what if the scions found out we are ascian? We dont know it yet. At any rate I dont think they will find out until we fight Hydaelyn herself or Zodiark. It's definitely a huge huge reveal that I hope they keep for the right time.

I also felt this patch hit me hard. The Miqote little girl in the beginning..... Crystal Exarch dying in Norvrantd forever, Lyna crying, Elidibus's last words, the exarch narrating.... it was all so typically Final Fantasy. In fact, this patch was more Final Fantasy than ever. I love the FFI reference with Elidibus, the chemist job tease from the little M'iqote, and the possible Necromancer reference. The new dungeon was also pretty good. I like how it was basically a gauntlet throughout Norvrantd. The trial fight itself was a fitting finale for Shadowbringers and that music is great. The fight references a multitude of FF references but the Emet Selch wave midway through the trial made me smile.

Later on, Y'shtola flirting gave me life.... just saying even if it happened to be with Runar... it was just such a funny moment teasing him that's he's still a boy in a man's body. She's previously rejected Magnai after all, rofl. My god Y'shtola is just such a great character.... if she ever died the game would never be the same. That being said I kinda feel like they overdid it on the goodbyes here.

I'm really glad that the scions all got their souls back untrapped and can travel to the source now but does that means only Ryne and Gaia will be joining us for the finale with Eden? It kinda felt the scions were written out of that story this patch. Eden tied into the MSQ a little after all. Anyway, the last scene with Zenos and the reveal that white robed figure is an Ascian was so obvious. But man, Zenos ignoring Fandaniel taking the form of Brutus was fantastic. Brutus was his biggest fan after all.... it was so fucking hilarious for Zenos to pretty much call him a literally who. But man we killed 2 major Ascian bosses now and Fandaniel strikes me as just a bloodthirsty Ascian. I think he is obviously the final boss of next expansion and Zenos will be there as well. But can anything even top Emet Selch and Elidibus? Maybe Fandaniel? I dont know... Fandaniel was never mentioned before. We only know his name exists because he was one of the Ascian overlords. He is significantly weaker than both Emet and Elidibus possibly even combined. I'm very interested to see what they do with him. Oh and G'raha Tia now being a Scion was very expected. I expected he would die this patch but i'm glad he lived now in the source.