What would you guys think about getting more Dynamic, "Combo" abilities?

[Deceptus]

Quite simply:

For every action that is literally 1-2-3 there is zero logical reason not to condense them down into a single button. None. You can claim complexity all you want but you're still pressing a button 3 times does it matter if it's 1-1-1 or 1-2-3? I submit that it does not.

"But But But Deceptus, there are times when I NEED to break that combo up!"

And lose potency? Why would you ever do that? If you missed out on the next step it could revert back to step 1. Button bloat is a constant fight in this game and a condensed combo button solves a small part of it.

Some classes have multiple finishers for their combos. And then there's monk who has multiple choices for each step.

Monk has a rear rotation and a flank rotation just like other melee jobs. Just move Snap Punch to flank and Demolish to rear and you can easily line everything up. You'd have a buffing rotation ending in a DoT, and then your main rear rotation.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Condensing the combos to a single button would really be helpful for certain classes... Mostly Monk and Dragoon I'd say.

MNK could easily turn 9 buttons into 3 buttons, and DRG could take 10 into 3. Probably would be best if they were combined at level 50 onwards, since that's when classes will have all base of their combo weaponskills. AoEs and DRG being really the only exceptions to this.
But basically, for the combos in whole
For MNK
Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch
Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish
Arm of the Destroyer -> Four-Point Fury -> Rockbreaker

For DRG
True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust.
True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaos Thrust -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang and Claw.
Doom Spike -> Sonic Thrust -> Coerthan Torment.


While most would save only 2 or 3 by condensing combos, for the sake of MNK and DRG it would be really helpful

[Terin]

Condensing the combos to a single button would really be helpful for certain classes... Mostly Monk and Dragoon I'd say.

MNK could easily turn 9 buttons into 3 buttons, and DRG could take 10 into 3. Probably would be best if they were combined at level 50 onwards, since that's when classes will have all base of their combo weaponskills. AoEs and DRG being really the only exceptions to this.
But basically, for the combos in whole
For MNK
Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch
Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish
Arm of the Destroyer -> Four-Point Fury -> Rockbreaker

For DRG
True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust.
True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaos Thrust -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang and Claw.
Doom Spike -> Sonic Thrust -> Coerthan Torment.


While most would save only 2 or 3 by condensing combos, for the sake of MNK and DRG it would be really

It's actually not a bad idea, making it something you have to "unlock". It would make newcomers appreciate those conveniences a lot more, if you had to get used to a fully-manual combo before unlocking a condensed version.

Like I said, I think for me, the main thing is making sure there's still some way of visually seeing where you are in a combo (am I on the first hit? the third?), and organize them with some rhyme and reason. The Samurai also comes to mind, as he has two 3-button combos and one 2-button combo associated with highlighting his "runes" or whatever. The Monk obviously has a "Side" combo and a "Back" combo, and there is definitely some reason to mix them up from time to time. This wouldn't even necessarily hamper that; you would just have to remember "Okay, I'm going to do two Back attacks, but then use my Side finisher to refresh my DoT" or something like that.

Like I said, if nothing else, it would be a godsend for my DRK. If I were able to condense his two main combos into two individual "combo" buttons, I would probably get away with only needing a single Hot-bar, which would be AMAZING on a controller!!!

[Sylve]

It's actually not a bad idea, making it something you have to "unlock". It would make newcomers appreciate those conveniences a lot more, if you had to get used to a fully-manual combo before unlocking a condensed version.

Like I said, I think for me, the main thing is making sure there's still some way of visually seeing where you are in a combo (am I on the first hit? the third?), and organize them with some rhyme and reason. The Samurai also comes to mind, as he has two 3-button combos and one 2-button combo associated with highlighting his "runes" or whatever. The Monk obviously has a "Side" combo and a "Back" combo, and there is definitely some reason to mix them up from time to time. This wouldn't even necessarily hamper that; you would just have to remember "Okay, I'm going to do two Back attacks, but then use my Side finisher to refresh my DoT" or something like that.

Like I said, if nothing else, it would be a godsend for my DRK. If I were able to condense his two main combos into two individual "combo" buttons, I would probably get away with only needing a single Hot-bar, which would be AMAZING on a controller!!!

Its pretty much why i suggested it be made an option for us to customise how we want. Rather than for SE to try and puzzle out the most generically optimal configuration, everyone would be free to make them do what we want them to do for our own comfort. As well as allowing those who enjoy the present system to retain how it all works right now.

Also, in regards to SAM's multiple combos, Freeing up hotbars actually allows spares to be used in more creative ways. As an example, though AST is my main job, i frequently forget which card goes to which role.
So i blew up my only unused hotbar and positioned it next to my job display. Then put the Lord/Lady button in a slot that then sits directly next to my drawn card. It doesn't have a bind, It's presence there is purely visual so that when i draw a card, i can tell at a glance which role it goes to even when i forget what the card does normally.
In the case of SAM, I'd just set a hotbar into a 3x3 config, place each combo in vertical order and then put that box near my job gauge. If i get confused as to where i am in my combo, I can just glance at the box and my position in the combo would be clearly lit up, much as it already does right now as separated binds.

[Canada_bangs]

I tried PVP just to see if I'd like the one button setup... and my answer is.. keep that shit in pvp. Leave my hotbars alone. I couldn't get behind that system and actively hate it so much I'll never do pvp again. For context I play on PS4 pro so controller all day. It's really not hard to set up your bars and stuff so it feels good on every job. We don't need that system in pve, hell I'd say we didn't need it in pvp. :c I'm not a fan.

[Sylve]

I tried PVP just to see if I'd like the one button setup... and my answer is.. keep that shit in pvp. Leave my hotbars alone. I couldn't get behind that system and actively hate it so much I'll never do pvp again. For context I play on PS4 pro so controller all day. It's really not hard to set up your bars and stuff so it feels good on every job. We don't need that system in pve, hell I'd say we didn't need it in pvp. :c I'm not a fan.

So ... Don't? From the start I've suggested it as an OPTION. Something that we can choose to use or not, at our own discretion and for our own needs.

You don't like condensed combos? Cool. Don't use it.
I want to condense some to save some keybinds? Cool, i can.

You don't lose anything for me to gain the option of condensing certain actions into singular keybinds.

[ForteNightshade]

So ... Don't? From the start I've suggested it as an OPTION. Something that we can choose to use or not, at our own discretion and for our own needs.

You don't like condensed combos? Cool. Don't use it.
I want to condense some to save some keybinds? Cool, i can.

You don't lose anything for me to gain the option of condensing certain actions into singular keybinds.

The issue then becomes will it remain comfortably optional? Take Paladin at the moment. If they added four new abilities without removing any, then it'll start to squeeze space for players who prefer not condensing their abilities into one button—effectively forcing them to unless they want have rather awkward keybinds.

So yes, we do lose something for you gaining this option. Hence the push back against it.

If we had my suggestion, my DRG main rotation would go from 1 2 3 Q E, 8 9 0 E Q down to 1 1 1 Q E, 2 2 2 E Q with oGCDs between as normal. At no point ever, for any reason would i even consider doing that out of order.

Actually, your Dragoon rotation would likely become 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 1. If PvP is anything to go by, Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust were also nestled into a singular button. respectively. Of course, if they allowed you the option you could customize it to your preference. Alas, I somehow doubt they'll allow that freedom.

As for Raiden Thrust. That isn't the same. Raiden is a direct upgrade over True Thrust. While yes, it technically combos off a finished Fang or Wheeling, you shouldn't be missing your positionals often enough to ever notice.

[Sylve]

The issue then becomes will it remain comfortably optional? Take Paladin at the moment. If they added four new abilities without removing any, then it'll start to squeeze space for players who prefer not condensing their abilities into one button—effectively forcing them to unless they want have rather awkward keybinds.

So yes, we do lose something for you gaining this option. Hence the push back against it.

You mean those same people who proclaim they have tons of free space on their bars?

The alternative is constant pruning of the jobs to give us anything new at all.

Lets take Black Mage, Ley Lines and BtL. For what reason is BtL a separate keybind? You can never use BtL without first placing LL and you can never cast LL while LL itself is on cooldown. They're 2 separate buttons for no purpose whatsoever.
MCH and Wildfire is also a good example. First use throws it out, second use manually detonates it. There being no reason for them being separate keybinds, so they aren't. Meanwhile, Queen and Overdrive are separate buttons, despite having virtually identical functionality in practice as compared to Wildfire and Detonate.

You also admit in your post that without some form of change, be it outright removal of abilities via pruning or condensing combos, keybinds are going to get more awkward when more skills are added.

At the very least, giving the ability to manually condense things at our leisure allows them to add new skills while leaving it up to the individual player how they go about putting that new skill into their hotbar.
If at some point in the future such condensing or pruning is required to fit everything into our hotbars, if things stay as they are there will be no choice for you. You will have to accept whatever SE decides to do in order to make new abilities fit.

[Terin]

There's been a lot of interesting responses either way, and I dig seeing everyone's thoughts, even those against the idea! It definitely brings up some interesting issues.

What if you just treated it sort of like creating your own macro, where you just gave players to build their own "combo-buttons", selecting up to X number of actionns to condense into a single button?

It would not only be completely optional, but it would also absolve the Devs of needing to "just create combos".

I think it's pretty clear that that even within "combos", for some jobs there is a bit more nuance where you might not ALWAYS want to follow the same combo string. So you'd be free to just not use a combo button at all, or even just deviate from the button when you wanted.

To me, it seems like a pretty happy medium.