DRK QOL changes for 5.4

[Lyth]

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Fair enough. But really, DRK needs to be linked to a starting hub to get the most benefit out of that. Unless the plan is to make Ishgard into one post-restoration?

I don't think a convalescence buff really solves the underlying problems. It was still bad even when we had Convalescence. This is a five year old problem with a longstanding history of complaints behind it.

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There isn't really a clear direction for DRK to follow thematically. Every time that a potential theme starts being developed, it gets washed away by overlap with other tanks. But there has to be a certain degree of mutual agreement between jobs to give up their areas of overlap. As an example, WAR has consistent access to a lot of self-healing with this patch, much moreso than anyone else. So if that's the 'theme' of the job, then make it job exclusive and build around it. We don't all need token self-heals on every tank. If DRK is going to focus on barriers, then we don't need token barrier shields on every job. Get the others to give that up in exchange. Otherwise you have four very similar tanks. The problem is that people get greedy and want everything that the others have +1. That was especially true for the past three expansions. Now that we have a level playing field with Shadowbringers, I think some negotiation is in order.

[bundythenoob]

Fair enough. But really, DRK needs to be linked to a starting hub to get the most benefit out of that. Unless the plan is to make Ishgard into one post-restoration?

I don't think a convalescence buff really solves the underlying problems. It was still bad even when we had Convalescence. This is a five year old problem with a longstanding history of complaints behind it.

There isn't really a clear direction for DRK to follow thematically. Every time that a potential theme starts being developed, it gets washed away by overlap with other tanks. But there has to be a certain degree of mutual agreement between jobs to give up their areas of overlap. As an example, WAR has consistent access to a lot of self-healing with this patch, much moreso than anyone else. So if that's the 'theme' of the job, then make it job exclusive and build around it. We don't all need token self-heals on every tank. If DRK is going to focus on barriers, then we don't need token barrier shields on every job. Get the others to give that up in exchange. Otherwise you have four very similar tanks. The problem is that people get greedy and want everything that the others have +1. That was especially true for the past three expansions. Now that we have a level playing field with Shadowbringers, I think some negotiation is in order.

You're right that Convalescence isn't enough to fix LD, but I wrote that mostly as a short suggestion that wouldn't require an overhaul of the skill, as the point of this thread was to suggest some easy QOL changes that could be implemented. as for afterwards, I think we can come to a decision on what to do for the skill in terms of reworking it, either for 5.5 or 6.0, whichever the devs decide to take.

As for the DRK thematic direction, I believe that the current DRK could benefit from having the new Dark Arts proc affect multiple skills once again as it used to in HW, since its effectively sitting on a 3000 mana cost and 15sec cooldown, but that would mean having to give up some tools like u suggested. perhaps have dark missionary also become like a mini TBN that rewards us with some mana or blood once its barrier has been absorbed? but what would we do about souleater and abyssal drain?

[MaraD_]

You're right that Convalescence isn't enough to fix LD,

I don't think a convalescence buff really solves the underlying problems. It was still bad even when we had Convalescence.

Ive agreed as well, BUT I would like to see a convalescence effect tied to both Walking and Living dead anyways.
(1) Gives us 1 more CD to use before we get to TBN.
(2) it nearly puts you on par with PLD/GNBs ability to use it for trash packs. (even though a conv effect is nowhere NEAR as good)
(3) It wont "feel" as bad using it, when u think you're at least helping the healers somewhat, rather than saying "Well, I may survive, but I feel like a hindrance to the group anyways"

Though for a similar treatment to WARs holmgang, make it proc a free use Nascent Flash, or maybe, every time your HP drops to 0, under the effect of Holmgang, your next WS/Ability can drain HP.
Of course WAR already has options to save and stack with holmgang, but this is just to make it feel more effective in trash pulls, and not feel like the weird one out, with this adjustment to DRK. (Maybe just have Equilibrium proc, but I feel that equilibrium should be something you actively choose to save for this. So the last idea I can think of, is to have increased parry rate, to mimic the old Raw Intuition somewhat. Except its not a 100% parry rate, so it cant reliably be used for physical tank busters.)

[WhyAmIHere]

There isn't really a clear direction for DRK to follow thematically. Every time that a potential theme starts being developed, it gets washed away by overlap with other tanks. But there has to be a certain degree of mutual agreement between jobs to give up their areas of overlap. As an example, WAR has consistent access to a lot of self-healing with this patch, much moreso than anyone else. So if that's the 'theme' of the job, then make it job exclusive and build around it. We don't all need token self-heals on every tank. If DRK is going to focus on barriers, then we don't need token barrier shields on every job. Get the others to give that up in exchange. Otherwise you have four very similar tanks. The problem is that people get greedy and want everything that the others have +1. That was especially true for the past three expansions. Now that we have a level playing field with Shadowbringers, I think some negotiation is in order.

sadly. It used to be the haste tank, but that was gutted. It still kinda is the anti-magic tank, but it's superfluous in that regard in that "yeah sure you guys can block everything as well or better than me, but I have DARK MIND!!!"

It's still a lingering problem that the job's whole kit is devoted to a skill at 70, which was even more problematic IMO in SB.
It'd be nice for a "learn how DRK" rework to give DRK's a skill that functions like TBN earlier to prepare them for how to use it, but as a downgrade. IMO like, keep the DA proc but remove the MP cost and make it a 15% shield, then upgrade it to TBN at 70.
Charges on AD would be nice but it still would make drk's self-sustain kinda meh at 200 potency, but increasing the potency makes AoE usage bonkers.
Salted is one of the last remaining offensive field bubbles, and I still believe in 6.0 it'll be removed. I'd rather they not and make Salted do more, like have an additional effect or something.

But back on point yeah. Now that there's diversity in the tanks, maybe, hopefully, in 6.0 SE will finally be able to iron out what each tank can do and have strengths/weaknesses in their kits.

[Jirah]

Agree, blood skill potency nerf is abit mixed but if its for balance due to other skills idc. Abyssal drain is too weak, and Stalwart Soul is wayyyyy to far in the toolkit for a aoe combo, Warrior got Mythril tempest pre 50 why didnt Drk....no i dont want the jobs to be carbon copies but its a freaking aoe

[KalinOrthos]

I like how the thread went from a suggestion to start unifying the discussion of meaningful changes to DRK to bring back some identity, to one guy acting like Charlie Day in front of that conspiracy board. "DRK didn't get any changes? ITS THOSE DAGGUM WARRIORS AGAIN"

On topic, I think the two aspects that really harm DRK is both its bad ability placement while leveling, and how it devolves in the endgame into just WAR but shields. And unfortunately, I don't think they're gonna revamp DRK in ShB, when we had a ninja overhaul and a monk revamp is in the way: there's only so much time in a patch cycle, and we likely have another expansion on the way soon too.

[cactuarzzzz]

I like how the thread went from a suggestion to start unifying the discussion of meaningful changes to DRK to bring back some identity, to one guy acting like Charlie Day in front of that conspiracy board. "DRK didn't get any changes? ITS THOSE DAGGUM WARRIORS AGAIN"

On topic, I think the two aspects that really harm DRK is both its bad ability placement while leveling, and how it devolves in the endgame into just WAR but shields. And unfortunately, I don't think they're gonna revamp DRK in ShB, when we had a ninja overhaul and a monk revamp is in the way: there's only so much time in a patch cycle, and we likely have another expansion on the way soon too.

I don't know why do you need to give the attention when it's just "one guy conversations" but the rest of the threads is fine. Unless it's your habit to pick on a certain spot. My fight is with Xtrasweettea not you but if want to join then I'm not say no. Probably shouldn't tho.

The entire thread is you white knighting for a video game job, getting what can be only described as "unreasonably disgruntled" at someone who made the entirely reasonable observation of "dark knights were comparing themselves only to warriors (which they were, I was raiding at the time) so SE made them more like warriors". You've taken the thread so far off the rails with your blind Warrior hatred that the train is in the next city over.

If it's the entry thread then why is there other 4 comments with a discussion that separate from me?

Also

Show me the proof that

"dark knights were comparing themselves only to warriors (which they were, I was raiding at the time) so SE made them more like warriors".

[bundythenoob]

On topic, I think the two aspects that really harm DRK is both its bad ability placement while leveling, and how it devolves in the endgame into just WAR but shields. And unfortunately, I don't think they're gonna revamp DRK in ShB, when we had a ninja overhaul and a monk revamp is in the way: there's only so much time in a patch cycle, and we likely have another expansion on the way soon too.

You're right about both points but I believe we have the power to influence square to change the leveling kit first. I hope we can get them to do so before or on 5.4, so that we can then begin to focus on how to bring back the gameplay identity. I have a few ideas myself on how to do so, using the current DRK build as a shell, but I will refrain from derailing this thread into another "Muh DRK rework" thread.

[KalinOrthos]

I don't know why do you need to give the attention when it's just "one guy conversations" but the rest of the threads is fine. Unless it's your habit to pick on a certain spot. My fight is with Xtrasweettea not you but if want to join then I'm not say no. Probably shouldn't tho.

The entire thread is you white knighting for a video game job, getting what can be only described as "unreasonably disgruntled" at someone who made the entirely reasonable observation of "dark knights were comparing themselves only to warriors (which they were, I was raiding at the time) so SE made them more like warriors". You've taken the thread so far off the rails with your blind Warrior hatred that the train is in the next city over.

[KalinOrthos]

If it's the entry thread then why is there other 4 comments with a discussion that separate from me?

Are

Are you for real?

Are you actually being serious?