Thread: DRK QOL changes for 5.4

FFS this back and forth argument is ridiculous.
Both of you are being stubborn and both of you are being intentionally antagonistic towards the other.

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

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You are right in your initial assertion that much of the reason that DRK is the way it is in its current incarnation is due to the community and there too often being a lack of sensible, thought out feedback.
I'm going to be brutally honest, too many players seem to lack the capacity to grasp the intricacies of game-play systems like job design or lack the temperament to see past their own self -imposed blinders due to stubborn arrogance. It's much like a modern example of the parable of the blind men and the elephant. Too often feedback is based off of emotional snap judgments, bandwagoning or other shallow reasonings, instead of taking the time to actually try to think on the meaningful details of problems and solutions. That is why in the past there was so much feedback for DRK that basically pointed to WAR and said "see what they have, give us that". That is why we still keep getting feedback that basically boils down to rolling back DRK to a previous version while ignoring the overarching changes and general evolution of tanks in general. That is why you get some players that argued for changes like we got and now are ranting about those very same changes and angrily demanding to go back to the very state that they previously argued against. Far too few try to put the thought and mental mileage in on their feedback; breaking down the nuances of the perceived problems to get to the root of the issues and instead want to just burn the whole thing down, looking at aspects of other jobs or previous versions of a job that seem like good potential alternatives and then trying to dig deeper as to why those things are fun or work to then build from that and instead just point to that other job and demand to be given exactly what they have.
People clamor for quick and easy answers, but easy answers tend to be fool's gold, glittery and shiny from afar but then when you get it in hand and can take a closer look, you realize it's not what you actually wanted and is relatively worthless.

Now that I have seemingly been pretty harsh towards the community, I'd like to soften the blow a bit.
While the transgressions gone into above are a problem with the community, they are not reflective of all of the community. Of course much of the community do not post on the forums or tend to not engage in such threads, so those that do are already a smaller portion of the whole.
Then among that portion there is, has and hopefully always will be a group of forum posters that actually are thoughtful, thorough and measured. Unfortunately said group tends to often get overshadowed by the more reactionary crowd and even get denounced, being called all sorts of dismissive labels such as "elitists" or being told that they don't care or were trying to hurt this or that job because they didn't immediately jump on the emotion-fueled bandwagon. Trying to be a voice of reason here on the forums, or really anywhere in life, is exhausting and more often then not tends to burn people out to where they no longer want to bother and simply walk away to leave people to their own devices and to suffer the inevitable consequences.
It also needs to taken into account that much of the posts and commentary in question on these forums and it seems especially regarding DRK, tends to be a small group of players that like to make a lot of noise. They post over and over, thread after thread, comment after comment, the same sort of stuff, often in concentrated bursts that crop up regularly. This attention seeking then tends to make the entirety of DRK posters look bad as a whole through association because when people see another DRK topic come up, they immediately roll their eyes and think "oh great another one of these", or if a sensible DRK discussion does somehow get going it can be expected that soon enough one of these posters will come in and blow the discussion up and derailing any meaningful discourse.

TLDR: We are our own worst enemies. Think before you speak (or type), I mean really actually think. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. Ignore the clowns that just want to turn everything into a circus.
* I'm using the general you above in the TLDR.

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

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You are partially right that there has indeed been a history of some WAR players coming into DRK discussions and being intentionally antagonistic. This has been happening since Heavensward and was happening before that in ARR but to Paladin.
However, this has not been the WAR playerbase as a whole, not even close, and so painting with such broad strokes and making out "WAR mains" as a whole to be a bunch of jerks out to get you and other DRK players is both inaccurate and unfair.
There are many WAR players that make good points on things regarding DRK and many actually support and argue for DRK changes being asked for. The posters that tend to come in and crap all over anything DRK related tend to be a very small group that, judging by what they post and how they post, seem to be more just individuals that like to be condescending provocateurs that get people riled up. The fact that many of these poster seem to have gravitated to WAR as their preferred job is notable but entirely circumstantial.
It also can't be ignored that there has also been a history of some DRK players going into threads on other tanks and just going off on rants in them and trying to turn the thread into another DRK thread. PLD players have done it too. There is plenty of blame to go around from all sides.
Lastly, just because someone disagrees with you on something DRK related doesn't mean they are trying to tear down DRK as a whole. I disagree with plenty of stuff put out there regarding DRK and I most definitely support changes for DRK, perhaps just not your or some other peoples' changes. So I think you really need to slow your roll and drop the anti-WAR rhetoric, it doesn't help you or anybody else and just clutters the forums with pointless arguments and tribalism.

TLDR: Haters gonna hate, but the amount that aren't haters tend to be greater.