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Thread: 5.3 changes

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  1. #1
    Player
    Rilifane's Avatar
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    Oct 2015
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    Character
    Esther Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    I know it's a buff but I'm conflicted about it.
    A death was extremely punishing for AST because we had huge gaps between our MP tools, so dying with both on CD was a guarantee for papercuts and Ether addiction while punishing for the team aswell if GCD heals were neccessary. So having more frequent MP tools is a good idea, escpecially if it's tied to a class mechanic and strongly encourages using it.
    But having 1270 MP/ min more than before even when not casting a single GCD heal is pretty big and makes MP management next to non-existent unless you stubbornly refuse to even draw cards.

    That Horoscope auto-triggers upon expiring brings it in line with Star and Excog but I also liked the idea that you could actually completely waste a skill if you didn't pay attention. Having it not auto trigger meant you needed to plan ahead a little because it needed to be spread out to two Malefic casts and keep an eye on the timer or you're left with nothing.

    That Sleeve now gives a seal you don't have yet is great but only giving one card now feels underwhelming. I know controller players rejoice because less target switching and all but I liked the busy opener and reopener. With the change to LS and Sleeve, LS is now almost solely for movement because you neither need to marry it to Sleeve for weaving nor keep it on CD for MP.

    The slight nerf to dps by having less cards than before is probably offset by having almost guaranteed 3 seal opener Divination and being able to signifcantly reduce the amount of Piety needed but makes it also more difficult to get seals back in time if you died. Overall it makes AST gameplay easier because MP is not tight, slightly reduced APM, auto-triggering Horoscope and LS being a simple movement tool outside opener now.
    Overall I'm not hyped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver View Post
    I main ast and I like the changes but I do wonder about the sleeve draw. Am I gonna need to draw, wait 30 seconds before pull so I can get the two seals and third with sleeve draw? Making my entire party wait 30second before any pull is a bit meh. And ik a lot of randoms in pfs wont want to wait so my divination will be 30seconds out of wack the whole time.
    Waiting for Draw to come off CD after pre-pull Draw is standard practice. Most ASTs want a 20s pull timer anyway for pre-shielding or early Star and adding additional 10s to a 9-14min fight is nothing.
    In most parties you can pre-Standard, wait for it to come off cooldown and pre-dance again if you ask for it. I don't how this should be an issue in savage.
    First thing AST always does when respawning is use Draw. So even if they do an instant 15s pull timer the moment everyone spawns, your Divination doesn't go off at 30s but more like 15-17s. Which is still bad but not fully misaligned and will most likely realign at the 2min mark.
    Nonetheless, a half-way decent party always lets ASTs pre-pull Draw and wait for it to come off CD.
    (0)
    Last edited by Rilifane; 08-10-2020 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilifane View Post
    But having 1270 MP/ min more than before even when not casting a single GCD heal is pretty big and makes MP management next to non-existent unless you stubbornly refuse to even draw cards.
    This is less an AST issue, and more a kind of "the concept of MP and resource management" issue. AST now won't care about piety, like the others healers.

    MP management is tricky. I think I'm going to trend towards a rather radical stance: MP should probably be removed like TP, eventually. The real resource in FFXIV is time/GCDs. Any time MP stops someone from casting they are going to complain, because no one wants to be standing around doing nothing.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Rilifane's Avatar
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    Esther Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
    like the others healers.
    And this right there is my problem.
    I don't see anything wrong with some healers needing to closely watch their MP while others don't. Not to the extend that it's pretty much impossible to take a raise or recover from a death unless you're running extremely high Piety, that's overdoing it. But having at least one healer with the added layer of keeping a close eye on their MP and MP tools isn't inherently wrong.
    Healers having different strengths and weaknesses isn't a bad thing.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
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    Makani Risvertasashi
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    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilifane View Post
    And this right there is my problem.
    I don't see anything wrong with some healers needing to closely watch their MP while others don't. Not to the extend that it's pretty much impossible to take a raise or recover from a death unless you're running extremely high Piety, that's overdoing it. But having at least one healer with the added layer of keeping a close eye on their MP and MP tools isn't inherently wrong.
    Healers having different strengths and weaknesses isn't a bad thing.
    Well, to be fair - We all do have to watch MP like this. Regardless of what healer you (theoretical 'you') might play, you have to pop lucid on CD, and your other MP button (Aetherflow/Thin Air/Draw). If you stop paying attention to that, you will run out in any decent length boss fight where healing isn't completely nonexistent.

    The real problem is that it's hard to add dimensions to it beyond "use this tool whenever you can".

    Also, on the DPS side, casters are the same way. Well, BLM and PLD use it differently - they have "build and spend" mechanics. But RDM and SMN just don't care about MP, unless rezzes start happening. Pop lucid, and forget about MP is their modus operandi too.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Recon1o6's Avatar
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    Character
    Avarnia Corthal
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Risvertasashi View Post
    This is less an AST issue, and more a kind of "the concept of MP and resource management" issue. AST now won't care about piety, like the others healers.

    MP management is tricky. I think I'm going to trend towards a rather radical stance: MP should probably be removed like TP, eventually. The real resource in FFXIV is time/GCDs. Any time MP stops someone from casting they are going to complain, because no one wants to be standing around doing nothing.
    Well you say that, but then we've had excellent mp systems in the past before Sb and Shb that became another differentiating and fun part of the jobs. In some case it was a resource to manage, in others a fun differential part of the playstyle

    Whm had naturally higher mp regen and self buffs designed to negate its mp costs so it was a slow burner, plus shroud of saints
    Astro had luminerferous aether and ewer to regen mp
    Sch had aetherflow and energy drain and had its entire gameplay loop based around juggling damage/healing bursts with aetherflow for mp and energy drain to regain stacks

    Blm still has its ice/fire rotation and flare which removes all mp and plants the blm in fire stance with no mp regen, yet that still had a place
    Smn also had the aetherflow rotation
    Rdm doesn't, but that's its entire schtick. Rdm's don't have mp regen. Whereas whm's borrowed their mp from nature which explains their focus on efficiency, rdm's just use their own and so have no mp cost reduction or restoration. But they do use their accelerators in order to make small costs into more powerful spells

    Drk also used to have mp rotation back in Hw. Using dark arts and mp attacks sparingly, then taking the time to regain mp from syphon strike, blood price, blood weapon etc.
    Pld's have one too. Its just riot blade followed by their spell combo. But its something
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player
    Maltothoris's Avatar
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    Character
    Malto Thoris
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1o6 View Post
    Whm had naturally higher mp regen and self buffs designed to negate its mp costs so it was a slow burner, plus shroud of saints
    I'm not sure about the higher mp regen given how whm had the worst mp economy back in heavensward. Also the proc changes for their mp costs were too low for it really make a difference. They were 15% for both free cure and overcure and then 20 percent for esuna and medica (the medica one being really low cause helios naturally would be more mp efficient than it when it was mapped out).

    However the changes to mp for astro, I wonder if they'll make any changes to piety in the future to try to make it useful outside of prog but given how things are, it will most likely go the war of tenacity.
    (3)