Thread: 5.3 patch complete note. Yes just keept upgrade WAR and forget about DRK

I think trying to correspondingly buff DRK's lifesteal, especially after the Nascent Flash change, doesn't make a lot of sense. If you have one tank that focuses on HP boosts and lifesteal, then let that be their theme. And whichever tank takes that on should be the one to deal with a Living Dead style invuln, because they're the ones actually capable of dealing with it themselves. There's more than one way to develop a tank's self-sustain without making them all identical. What DRK needs to do now is double down on the bubble/revenge mechanics.

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

As for DRK doubling down on the bubble/shield mitigation, that potentially introduces it's own unique sets of problems.

I'm fairly certain TBN already works as follows.

All other shield effects are placed into a FIFO order while a unique spot in the shield array is designated for TBN. So the list looks like

[TBN Spot]
[Shield 1]
[Shield 2]
[Shield ..]
[Shield X]

So the damage check will always see TBN first, and then go down the line.

And if it doesn't work this way, it can work this way.

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

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A commonly cited problem this expansion is that every tank is just a homogenised re-skin of the others. It's a problem, but a necessary step that had to be taken. Prior to Shadowbringers, certain tank jobs were grandfathered in to advantages that made them mandatory. We've gotten rid of that. Now you have choice, but it's a boring one. But it's a step in the right direction. Now we can start looking at ways to make the tanks feel different, yet be capable of similar performance.

The next step should be to give each job unique ways of accomplishing the same tasks. Despite what anyone says, self-healing tanks are really fun, and they work (see Warcraft and Death Knights). Prior to this expansion, I had recommended that DRK be the defacto self-healing tank given their 27-year history of HP manipulation mechanics and abilities like Souleater and Abyssal Drain. It also would have made the most sense given the fact that Living Dead requires you to burst heal through a lot of damage. But for whatever reason, WAR has gone down this route, especially with the changes to NF. So if the devs, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that WAR needs to be far better at self-healing than any other tank, let them focus on that. There's really no point in giving the other three tanks equivalent abilities when they've already committed to this decision.

The issue of 'anticipating' incoming damage is simple enough. You just need two sets of abilities; one set that boosts your max HP temporarily, and a second set that gives you lots of self-healing. Let me give you an example. Let's say that Eye gave you a 'momentum' buff which increased your max HP (without healing you) and your attack speed. Both then decayed over time on a per second basis until you reapplied it. You might have some abilities that gave you a sustained rise in HP cap without healing (ToB, Raw Intuition) with others that just healed you back up (Nascent Flash, Equilibrium). Now you have a lifestealing tank that can try to boost their HP levels to anticipate incoming damage. And give them Living Dead, because let's face it, Holmgang literally means "dual to the death", and if you're going to have the shortest recast invuln with the highest offensive burst, you should be fighting for your life to survive.

DRK, by contrast, could very easily focus on revenge mechanics. TBN is all about this. Take enough damage on your bubble shield, get a free counter attack. Do you know what people miss the most about Reprisal? It's not the fact that it's damage down. It's the fact that you proc it defensively and then get to counterattack stab your opponent. What we need are barrier shields, counter attack procs when said shields pop, and lots of interplay between blood and MP. Let it feel like a completely different tank. One based around vengeance. The end should be the same, but the means should always be different.

Originally Posted by Lyth

A commonly cited problem this expansion is that every tank is just a homogenised re-skin of the others. It's a problem, but a necessary step that had to be taken. Prior to Shadowbringers, certain tank jobs were grandfathered in to advantages that made them mandatory. We've gotten rid of that. Now you have choice, but it's a boring one. But it's a step in the right direction. Now we can start looking at ways to make the tanks feel different, yet be capable of similar performance.

I had a lot of fun leveling WAR back in ARR, but when you hit that higher content WAR was kind of gimp compared to PLD. WAR hit harder, but got hit harder. Back then you had Bloodbath to keep you alive and it was really OP for a warrior as it scaled way better then it did for PLD. That being said, the tanks were "balanced". PLD absorbed high amounts of damage by being a turtle. WAR healed through damage and was really good at it. I felt warrior took much more skill to be really good at the job. PLD was a cake walk for me.

I love the way WAR plays now as it's basically right back where it was in ARR. Most people see this as a bad thing, and they can see it that way fine. I'm looking forward here and can't wait for what's to come in 6.0 for WAR. I think it's going to keep this heal tank thing going since it works SO WELL right now. Before I was forced to target a party member to utilize my greatest strength, and now I can use it freely really pump out the self heals more effortlessly.

Yes I know there will be others that say it's exactly the same! No it's not....just don't. It went from a forced party mechanic to a selfish mechanic with the ability to target other players. WAR is no longer completely reliant on equilibrium now for it's self heal. Now you can follow up with Nascent after 30 sec. after you pop Equilibrium and have those heals continue to roll. IF equilibrium is sufficient enough go with Raw Intuition. I really like the choices WAR has now, and way more efficient for combat sake.

Here's hoping in 6.0 that we don't have this moment where "OMG WAR needs to do more damage!" As you said before balancing self heals is very difficult as it scales off of damage. This community is so thirsty for MOAR dps which is strange for a tank to be doing as much dmg as a DPS. Strangeness aside it's the reality we have now I suppose and I think SE has finally hit the nail on the head as far as WAR goes. Now if they can just keep that innovation moving forward and not repeat the same mistakes.

Originally Posted by Sqwall

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I have good memories of ARR (and to a lesser extent HW) WAR as well. I felt that its strength was that your defense was linked to your offensive strategy, rather than being something that you just weaved into your damage rotation. I liked HW DRK with reprisal and its counterattacks for similar reasons.

I don't think that wanting doing more damage is a problem, so long as tanks as a whole do nearly equivalent damage to each other. I think that it's absolutely daft to push the majority of raid damage output on to dps, as has been done. What I object to is the idea that one tank should do significantly more damage than the rest, because reasons. That suggestion usually comes from underperforming players who want themselves to have a secure raid spot by virtue of their job selection. But I also equally object to the idea that tanks in general should do significantly less damage because they're "there to take damage". Tanking, at its core, should be about an interplay between defense and offense. You hit me or a teammate I'm defending, I hit you back harder. Tanks should be a real credible threat, not a fictional threat that the AI attacks because its told to do so.