Thread: 5.3 patch complete note. Yes just keept upgrade WAR and forget about DRK

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I honestly don't really have an issue with the WAR changes to the upkeep of Storm's Eye since there have been legitimate complaints regarding it's upkeep for a while now. As for the idea of making it this much easier resulting in the buff upkeep becoming "braindead" similar to DRK's Darkside, I'm not sure I fully agree with that since it just results in you having to use Storm's Path less frequently whereas Edge/Flood are used consistently on DRK regardless. I mean I get that having to use Storm's Path less and having to pay less attention to the buff is simplifying an aspect of the job, that I agree with. Curious though how much of a potential dps buff not having to use Storm's Path as much could provide over an encounter.

It is unlikely to affect the warrior's dps ceiling significantly. At most the gain is going to be 10 more Beast gauge every 3 minutes. The gain is going to be more on the dps floor as lower skilled players won't be clipping the buff as much and won't be dropping the buff during IR as much.

So now for an unpopular opinion. I don't like the change to Nascent Flash because I've always felt that NF is supposed to be the support ability equivalent of TBN, HoS and Intervention. The self-heal from NF has always been too powerful imo and turned a support ability into primarily a really strong self-sustain ability instead. It seems like the devs and many of the players can't get beyond WAR's past where it's tankiness came from being a huge HP sponge with lots of self-sustain to compensate for a lack of direct defensive abilities. They changed the HP sponge approach for good reason and gave WAR direct defensive abilities yet kept the huge amount of self-heals in one form or another for some reason in the subsequent iterations. I personally would have preferred if they had reigned in the self-heal from the ability to emphasize it as a support ability but now they have removed the target requirement instead signaling that they are fine with it not being mainly a support ability and again doubled down on "WAR gets huge self-heals because ...".

You are not alone in your opinion on Nascent Flash.

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

They changed the HP sponge approach for good reason and gave WAR direct defensive abilities yet kept the huge amount of self-heals in one form or another for some reason in the subsequent iterations. I personally would have preferred if they had reigned in the self-heal from the ability to emphasize it as a support ability but now they have removed the target requirement instead signaling that they are fine with it not being mainly a support ability and again doubled down on "WAR gets huge self-heals because ...".

While I do agree with this to some aspect and the heal tank didn't work back then, but it most certainly works now. If I may...

Clemancy - pure DPS lost, but a STUPID nigh insane SELFISH cure. Can be used on other party members. With req. buff I have healed healers in trouble for 70k crits.....damn! No req. buff...40-50k heal
Aurora - Decent self heal to an already strong cooldown rotation that you really can have a constant cooldown on GNB at all times....Can be cast on other members with no issue. Great OT utility
Abyssal Drain - maybe one of the weakest self heal abilities in a 1v1 aspect. But in AOE, HOLY MOLY is it strong as hell. I personally couple this with large pulls. Living Dead with Abyssal Drain is actually OP as hell, and highly rewarding. TBN....stop crying you have the best mitigation tool in the game....literally the best...ever...for all time!

And now we have Nascent Flash, which is now a REAL skill no longer shackled to a party member. This with burst phase and more Path heals....I guarantee healers are going to love healing warriors as they can pretty much take care of themselves much like DRK, PLD, GNB, can.....o wait......that's all the tanks!

Huh....that's weird...like they are all...equal....

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Each cast of Clemency drops a Paladin's dps by a significant amount. They might be able to toss out 1800 to 2520 potency heals during their burst window, but this comes at a cost of 525+ dps every cast.
Aurora on a 60s cooldown with a total potency of 1200. Aurora and Equilibrium have the exact same healing potential.
Abyssal Drain is equal to Equalibrum and Aurora as a heal when you have 6 targets but severely weakens as a heal with fewer.

Nascent Flash combined with Inner Chaos is a 1610 potency self-heal every 20s. No other tank can keep up without losing a lot of dps..



Not really. Warrior is unlikely to need very much healing. With the NF changes, Equilibrum and Thrill of Battle, there will be little need to heal them outside tank busters. No other tank has near the self-healing that a Warrior has and pretty much no solo combat will be able to kill a Warrior.

Closest is gunblade through aurora and I think the heal from brutal shell is a natural part of their rotation.
I haven't leveled GNB just yet though I admit

Originally Posted by Leiron

Closest is gunblade through aurora and I think the heal from brutal shell is a natural part of their rotation.
I haven't leveled GNB just yet though I admit

Aurora is a HoT version of Equilibrium. Brutal Shell (200 heal/200 shield) parallels the self-heal on Storm's Path (250 heal) and Souleater (300 heal). NF give the Warrior an insane amount of free self-healing.

GNB is a little squishy. They needed an adjustment.

WAR used to be top dog before PLD, they needed a little boost.

DRK is in an okay place, still have TBN.

Just be patient. DRK can hold their own.

Originally Posted by Sqwall

Huh....that's weird...like they are all...equal....

What WAR is now is not a "heal tank", it's a tank with all the standard defensive abilities that all the other tanks have plus an extra helping of self-heals. If WAR were a "heal tank" their method of mitigation would be in self-heals. It's the difference between large self-heals in exchange for direct mitigation as opposed to large self-heals in addition to direct mitigation, and that is an important distinction.

The self-heal potential between the tanks is not even remotely equal and you are both cherry-picking as well as blatantly misrepresenting things.

PLD has a 1200 potency cure in Clemency which they can spam as long as they have MP and they can boost it to ridiculous levels with Requiescat, however to do that they basically have to completely neuter their ability to do damage. So PLD's ability to burst heal, themselves or others, in a pinch is bar-none the best of all the tanks but comes at a great cost and will rarely if ever be used in regular play.

GNB has Aurora which is 1200 pot of healing as a regen over 18s (200 potency cure per tick over 6 ticks). Decent self-heal but it being spread out over 18s doesn't help when you need burst healing. Being able to cast it on a party member is nice and helps bolster their support ability since I feel that HoS is a bit weak in comparison to the other tank single-target support abilities.

DRK has Abyssal Drain which is a 200 potency per target hit cure. In single-target that heal is abysmal (*ba-dum-dum-tish*) in comparison to the other tank equivalents and is only partially made up for by Soul Eater having a decent sized cure attached to it, however that makes the self-healing really spread out which doesn't help when you need burst healing and so tends not to really result in that many fewer heals being cast on the DRK.
In AoE it can be quite powerful but not anywhere near where you are making it out to be. To reach the 1200 potency equivalent of the other tank 60s self-heals you would need to be hitting 6 enemies. Most really large pulls tend to hover around 8 or 9 enemies, so in those instances you are getting maybe 400 to 600 potency more of heals assuming none of them have been killed off before you need and use AD and that you manage to hit all of them which often doesn't happen due to enemies spreading out a bit when pausing to cast telegraphed abilities while you are trying to group them up tight.
So under the right conditions and only in mass dungeon pulls, Abyssal Drain can be more powerful, yet in all other instances it is way weaker.

WAR has Equilibrium which is a 1200 potency cure for themselves which doesn't result in any dps lost like Clemency, is an all at once burst unlike Aurora and isn't dependent on there being at least 6 enemies present like Abyssal Drain. Of all the tank self-heals it is by far the most consistently reliable. This is the relative "equivalency" to look at, although it is clear that some of those heals are not quite as good as others in harder and non-dungeon content.
Trying to equate Nascent Flash to these other heals makes little to no sense whatsoever.

Nascent Flash is best compared against it's actual "equivalents".

As a support ability, I'd say what it provides to the support target is fairly equitable since it can potentially provide/save a lot of HP for the target from the heal and it also has a bit of direct mitigation too. So no problem looking at that aspect.

The problem is the self-heal aspect of the ability. In mass pull situations, the potential healing from NF absolutely trounces any other short defensive in regards to the amount of HP saved. In single-target the HP it restores can often outpace the damage the other tank's short recast defensives prevent with the caveat that it won't save you if taking a hit that would kill you outright, but for that there is Raw Intuition. So for any buster that is a real threat, use RI, which prevents just as much damage as TBN when taking damage equating to 125% of your max HP, and for when you are not taking such a severe spike of damage use NF. You are covered for all situations and then some.

Now let's look at TBN in comparison. Yes it is absolutely a very powerful defensive ability, however because of the resource/dps loss when it is not consumed, it can only be used during periods when you are taking enough damage to guarantee that it breaks. That makes it best to use when dealing with spikes of damage. During most lulls of damage between spikes you have to just sit and hold it, waiting for the next spike resulting in potentially not getting as many usages out of the ability as the other tank short recast defensives. In other words, it may potentially defend from more damage when used but it may potentially not be able to be used as much. There are even instances in some content, like some dungeon bosses or soloing old group content, where it may not be able to break ever and so is not even used. This alone makes the claim of it being "literally the best ever for all time" somewhat dubious and that's not even taking into account the rest of DRK's defensive kit or the defensive kits of the other tanks as comparisons.

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

You're doing nothing but buff WAR since shadowbringers release

Originally Posted by Hierro

Nice Shirt. It suits you.