Why is PVP not fun?

[Divinemights]

I like playing it, I just wish some of the jobs I want to play were actually fun to play. Machinist feels so awful.

They were too strong last expansion and still quite strong if you know where to stand

[RoyalDecree]

PVP would be greatly improved if it would allow us to pvp other players in the open world that are around your level kind of similar to WoW instead of locking us out into an instanced area with few abilities we can use. Would be neat if SE maybe introduced a feature in the future where we either fight for Hydalyn (The Light) or Zodiark (The Darkness) similar to how WoW has "The Horde" and "The Alliance."

[Newmanxeno]

I'm talking about the how fun it is to me. I know it got buffs. I just don't like it compared to how 4.0 mch felt.

[Waaltar]

PVP would be greatly improved if it would allow us to pvp other players in the open world that are around your level kind of similar to WoW instead of locking us out into an instanced area with few abilities we can use. Would be neat if SE maybe introduced a feature in the future where we either fight for Hydalyn (The Light) or Zodiark (The Darkness) similar to how WoW has "The Horde" and "The Alliance."

Have you ever done anything like that in other games? I'm guessing no. Open world PVP is usually really terrible. It was also the original PVP, not in this game, but in games like it going back ~15-20 years. There is a whole long and terrible history of devs chasing the dream of open world PVP and the games it destroyed. Eventually, people came up with instanced PVP which is much better. Then they came up with MOBAs which are some of the most played multi-player games on the internet.

[LeonKeyh]

Have you ever done anything like that in other games? I'm guessing no. Open world PVP is usually really terrible. It was also the original PVP, not in this game, but in games like it going back ~15-20 years. There is a whole long and terrible history of devs chasing the dream of open world PVP and the games it destroyed. Eventually, people came up with instanced PVP which is much better. Then they came up with MOBAs which are some of the most played multi-player games on the internet.

Yeah, open world PvP is 95% of the time awful garbage. Sure, about 2% of the time you have amazing stories about tracking people down and having a great 1v1 fight, but usually if there's an actual fight somebody did something wrong. Open world PvP is all about ganking. Nobody starts a fair fight.

There has to be significant design changes to open world PvP for it to be any good. Arena PvP is the best implementation of PvP at the moment because it actually results in more fair fights which are actually fun. I would say that Guild Wars's WvWvW system is probably the "best" implementation of a mix between "Open world" and Arena style PvP and would be something that would be great to see here. It would certainly do a better job at getting people to come together and work for their server.

[Jirah]

Im down for a Eurkea type area for the PVP nuts, but most jobs PVP incarnation dont even out. MCH for example is so simple there entire kit is present but SCH and SMN lack their summons which just dilutes there job. also the fact i have to master the PVP kit is annoying. Main reason i dont do PVP is lack of real rewards they need to have more rewards than what we have. it isnt supported enough and id love to get more tomes or hell even Pvp ilvl gear but nay its treated as a side activity

[Payadopa]

I know it sounds weird and I probably can't articulate it well, but it feels... too balanced? It's rather boring after a while.
I get that everyone needs a fair chance so maybe SE's hands are tied but the abilities you get are really boring. And there is no gear that changes stats if I recall correctly. And then there are the q times... Shame. I really like some of the gear.

[BloodRubyXII]

Frontlines - I enjoy them, but they're only avaliable at set times on EU and whilst I have alts everywhere, it sucks enough playing it on my main with nothing to really gain other than a few achievements. Worst of all, my raid starts around 1-2 hrs after fls start picking up activity, and end around the time the last game starts on eu. I love RW, and I love how active it was when tome events start, but it also encourages me to play because there's a reward for playing it and I always really want those items.

Feast - Small pool leads to predictable matchmaking, if you're going to get the worst team all night then there's no point me chucking points. Feast is fun with balanced teams, and even better with high level gameplay; which is a premium. This is so rare though that the mode isn't fun enough for me to play. Because I can play the minimum, not deal with that, and be safe anyway for the reward. If there was more to play for and the games were less of a matchmaking coin flip, I'd play more matches. The issue is ladder is sometimes more luck than skill. I have top 10 title on two chars, and r1 is very difficult for title/trophy. And even that is sometimes picking the right nights/times to queue. With that being the only reward other than top 100, why bother playing more than I need to be safe. What made me less motivated to play was one of my eu chars (London) played around 600 games last season, finished around 2200 peak, but ended around 1900. London started with gold tier 100. I had an alt on the same dc (Aoife), I played a job I'd never played before, from 0 rating and I ended the season just over 2100, with 165 matches played.

So Aoife basically achieved what London got with 400+ less games. Obviously most of what I beat/farmed were new/experienced players, London played vs more vets. But when matchmaking is such a coin toss that it is actually more advantangeous and efficient to climb late at minimal amounts for the same result, why would I play. Sometimes, being the highest rated player of your role in queue makes it extremely stupid to queue.

Also the rating system is still borked. You can be in a plat/gold game. But your healer is new, even though they're gold, it's almost a free ride to gold tier. You can get them all the way until you are Diamond. You wait 17 minutes, get a new healer/melee, vs a vet melee/healer that are either against you due to being high rated, or against you because they are behind on climbing and thus they are considered low rating and you just get thrashed, and you know if you requeue, 20mins later it'll probably happen again.

Have you ever done anything like that in other games? I'm guessing no. Open world PVP is usually really terrible. It was also the original PVP, not in this game, but in games like it going back ~15-20 years. There is a whole long and terrible history of devs chasing the dream of open world PVP and the games it destroyed. Eventually, people came up with instanced PVP which is much better. Then they came up with MOBAs which are some of the most played multi-player games on the internet.

I have played most popular/decent MMORPGs. To this day in the last couple of decades the only game I have played with excellent world PvP is probably RuneScape 2.

[Mistress_Irika]

I've been playing pvp for about 3 years now. I didn't get into pvp until Astragalos came out. Since then I've grinded pvp, and I continue to grind faithfully all the way til after 5.1 when certain changes appeared. I didn't agree with some changes, and with how certain games are in general today I still don't agree with some of the changes that was made. PvP is fun. It always will be to me. However, it's not as fun as it was back then partially because I'm hardly gaining any personal growth from it.

I can contribute to the crowd and point my fingers at SE, but I personally cannot get mad at them. I don't have the right to get angry. All the changes that I've seen to this day overall was just to make things more fun for the community at that given time period to those who were playing around that specific time. What I failed to see until after 5.1 was how much game variety we lost and the freedom to choose over time. We can't choose to represent GCs, we can't choose to grind on your favorite frontline map every day, and we can no longer play certain maps/modes. You have limited access as to who you can choose to play with in your party. You can't even freely chat in feast, something that will throw a new player off that's curious with the mode. With how long the map has been locked Astragalos may soon be joining those that's in the graveyard in my opinion.

Comparing pvp to pve I don't understand the reason why pvp is so...restrictive. You can almost do whatever you want in pve dungeons/trials/raids when setting your own rules. I don't understand why pvp doesn't have that. It would be easier for those that are now running their own tournaments and events that has been popping up lately....
I probably shouldn't be comparing pvp to pve. I apologize to those that are offended by that.

I still think it's fun, but like most have been saying I do believe that pvp needs more in order for it to become fun for the majority. I personally would look at the new ideas that are coming up and/or resurrect a dead map or mode. I know that I haven't address classes. If I'm missing anything else or if I'm wrong with something or shouldn't be worrying about a particular thing let me know. I don't want to be ignorantly passing on a message that I shouldn't be.

[ItMe]

[QUOTE=Mistress_Irika;5436671] We can't choose to represent GCs, /QUOTE]

This is from the FF14 devs learning from other MMOs mistakes.
If we could choose which GC to represent there would be one everyone would wanna join because it's the good one, and one no one would wanna be apart of because they always lose to the big one.
And at the very least, que times would be atrocious.